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posted on Feb 04, 2005 - 03:43 PM
I can't believe that our church has this beautiful tradition and it has never to my knowledge been practiced in my chruch....I am happy that things are moving with the English translation and I will be looking forward to introducing it to the deacons in my church.
God Bless,
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Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above ~James 1:17
posted on Feb 04, 2005 - 11:04 PM
PS. If anyone reading this is in the Southern Diocese, Please keep asking about it, and keep us updated on the progress, and when it comes out, so we can all get one!!!
Unfortunately, I am not in the southern diocese. Pray for it!!! IN Christ,
me 
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"What can be more blessed than to imitate on earth the chorus of the angels; to begin the opening day with prayer, honouring the Creator with hymns and songs; and when the sun is up to turn to work, always accompanied by prayer, and to season one's labours with singing? Cheerfulness and freedom from sorrow are the gifts which the soul received from the singing of hymns." --St. Basil the Great
posted on Mar 11, 2005 - 01:30 AM
Hey all,
I know that i keep on bringing up old issues, such as this one, but non of them are finished.... I am just wondering what is going on with the English defnar? Are people still working on it? Is it almost complete? Please share any info that is known!
George Mekhaiel
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George Mekhaiel
posted on Mar 11, 2005 - 04:21 AM
Agape,
I find it impossible to translate the Difnar from Arabic to English - it's extremely poetic in Arabic, and won't make any sense in English (i.e. Arabic metaphorical language is not the same as English).
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"Our hearts are restless until they find rest in You, Lord" (St. Augustine, Confessions, I, 1).
"Pray gently and calmly,
Chant hymns with understanding and rhythm;
Then you will soar like a young eagle
High in the heavens"
+ St. Evagrius the Solitary, On Prayer, 82.
In Christ,
Bishoy
HCOC Member
+ To Protect and Preserve +
HCOC: Sing it! Live it! Love it!
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posted on Dec 06, 2005 - 12:07 AM
Hi all,
I'm sorry to keep opening this subject over the years but i really need to know if anyone is working on the English defnar?! I'm kinda getting inpatient which is why i'm going to start saying the defnar in my church with the English Synaxariam... Has anyone heard anything? I've heard that in some churches the priest of the church has taken the liberty to write a version of the life story of that saint suitable for the defnar in English!
George Mekhaiel
posted on Dec 06, 2005 - 01:38 AM
† WOW! i honestly didn't know about the defnat...i didn't even know something so beautiful liek that exist..yet thats the best part about our being orthodox, everyday you discover beautful things in our history. well our church is all alone in manitoba, canada and I don't think people in my church know about the Defnar...so i will be talking to my FOC and if we dont have it, then I would love to know where our church can purshase one. k thanx to all for sharing this blessing, and if God is willing you will succeed in the translations...keep my week soul in your prayers...GBU~†
ur sister in Christ,
Maria
posted on Dec 06, 2005 - 01:38 AM
† WOW! i honestly didn't know about the defnar...I didn't even know something so beautiful liek that exist..yet thats the best part about our being orthodox, everyday you discover beautful things in our history. well our church is all alone in manitoba, canada and I don't think people in my church know about the Defnar...so i will be talking to my FOC and if we dont have it, then I would love to know where our church can purshase one. k thanx to all for sharing this blessing, and if God is willing you will succeed in the translations...keep my week soul in your prayers...GBU~†
ur sister in Christ,
Maria
posted on Dec 06, 2005 - 12:42 PM
You can buy one in just about any monastery! I see that you live in Canada, so what i would do if i were u and wanted a defnar is that i would call the monastery here in California (St. Antony) and reach the book store (Brother Theodore is in charge of it) and I would ask him to order me a defnar and send it to me in the mail! He would be more than happy to do it....
George Mekhaiel
posted on Dec 07, 2005 - 12:15 AM
Agape
I pray for this at every Midnight Praise. May God give us a suitable translation for the edification of His flock.
I wonder, with all the resources of the Southern and LA Dioceses, why hasn't an English translation been produced?
God help us; this is one of many books the Coptic Orthodox Church in North America has yet to properly produce.
Peace and Agape
Kerellos
posted on Dec 07, 2005 - 02:23 AM
TO BE quite honest ,
i have No idea what the defnar is , when its said , or how its said , or even if i have heard it be4 .
maybe im not the only one .
exactly what is the Defnar ? .
by judgeing from this thread .. i understand its only in arabic ... so that part is clear .
but what is the defnar . any links to audio files ? .
thanks . peace .. sorry for my late and uneducated post however ... im sure none of us know everything about anything .
peace
posted on Dec 07, 2005 - 02:31 AM
Hi Tony,
The Defnar is arabic for, "Antiphonarium" which is said in tasbeha after the theotokia or lobsh of the theotokia. Here is a link:
http://www.coptichymns.net/module-hymns ... id-84.html
it is on the 3ed and 4th rows from the bottom. It is also on the HCOC tapes (the best recording) it has a long tune and a short tune.
Basically, what is, is a different version of the synaxariam that is said during tasbeha to commemorate the saint of the day. If you ever go to the monastery you will hear it...
I hope this helps,
George Mekhaiel
posted on Dec 07, 2005 - 01:38 PM
From Biboboy:Agape,
I find it impossible to translate the Difnar from Arabic to English - it's extremely poetic in Arabic, and won't make any sense in English (i.e. Arabic metaphorical language is not the same as English).
True but you can say that about all our Church services, like the 3 liturgies from Coptic to English or Arabic, like the Coptis Psalmody, like the explanations/exposition of Pascha, Palm Sunday, Feast of the Cross, etc (which by the way is sung, not read). The list goes on and on. Why should the difnar be any different?
George
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posted on Dec 07, 2005 - 01:45 PM
From cyriliv:I wonder, with all the resources of the Southern and LA Dioceses, why hasn't an English translation been produced?
In the grand scheme of things, look at the big picture. What would be more beneficial to the English speaking parishioners, The Midnight Psalmody or the Difnra? The Psalis and Doxologies of the Saints or the Difnar? The Feast Psalmody or the Difnar? Where should we spend our time and effort first? It's not an easy question to answer. The fact is we have many texts that are not translated into English.
Be patient. It took hundreds of years to get the Coptic text. It might take a while for the English translation.
In the mean time, may I suggest everybody learn Coptic fluently. It's easier than English and exponentially easier than Arabic.
George
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posted on Dec 04, 2006 - 11:23 PM
While doing some Internet searching I came across something about a translated Difnar, done by De Lacy O'Leary in the late 19th Century. Does anyone know about this?!?
http://sbnweb.csi.it:8092/BASIS/opacx/u ... DY%26U%3D1
Pavly
posted on Dec 05, 2006 - 12:04 AM
Pavly,
The Saint Shenouda Society has done a lot of work in the coptic area. I will look into contacting a few of my friends who are very involved in the Saint Shenouda Coptic Society and see if they have or can get a copy of the English Difnar that is posed on that link.
If anyone can read and understand french (I think it's french). can you please translate what is written on that page.
Also, I know that some churches have translated the difnar reading for their church Saint. For example Saint Abanoub has their difnar reading translated (hint hint paul, please post it hint hint).
George Mekhaiel
posted on Dec 05, 2006 - 02:07 AM
George, I speak French and that's not French on the link I posted.
However, i would be guessing (educated guess...) by saying that this version of the Difnar is a software version (talks about Adobe 4.0).
Anyhow, we'll wait for anyone else's research too!
Pavly
posted on Dec 05, 2006 - 02:33 AM
I just took a look at the link and it's definetely written in Italian. I tried using an Italian 
English translator to understand some of the things written and it definitely seems like it might be a pdf version of the Difnar... and from what it looks like, it's written in English 
posted on Dec 05, 2006 - 02:30 PM
De Lacy O'Leary translated the Difnar into 3 volumes in the early 20th century. He used Coptic manuscripts from the 18th century. I don't know if it is the same as the Difnar we have today in church. I don't think it is.
OHE Burmester also translated the "Turahat of the Saints" in 1938-1940. It is similiar to De Lacy O'Leary's version, but it has significant differences (the main difference is the addition or omission of Coptic verses). He also only translated the first and last Coptic verses into English. The manuscripts he used were from the 16th century (1580 AD to be exact).
I will check the current Difnar with Burmester's version. I will look for De Lacy's version. I didn't know St. Shenouda Coptic Society offers De Lacy's version. I'll try to get my hands on it.
George
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