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posted on Sep 07, 2006 - 01:21 AM
ojala .... if u scroll up just a tad .... only a tad ... i like u mention how george is judgeing and how he has no authority to make such claims ... but u will find ur post to george to be a waste .... for he saw my post and skipped my post , becuase he simply can not handle the truth . which is .... that he is a major ... undeniable ... hypocrite .
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posted on Sep 07, 2006 - 01:37 AM
Ok, a few simple points:
1. I am not suffering at all. I am not the angry type….I’m a little disappointed that some disagree with me….but then again, there are those who agree…
2. Secondly, I am not judging anyone. No where in my heart do I feel that I am laying doing any judgment. I think no less of anyone because I understand that I also am not perfect and do fall into sin. But, I still feel I, as a servant of Christ, need to voice myself when I see a sin happening right in front of me.
3. Matt, the fellowship which you described is not being done with Christ in its midst. I don’t think Christ is satisfied by the type of dissection which is found in the shoutout box…do you honestly think that he is?
George Mekhaiel
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George Mekhaiel
posted on Sep 07, 2006 - 01:56 AM
From geomekhaiel:
3. Matt, the fellowship which you described is not being done with Christ in its midst. I don’t think Christ is satisfied by the type of dissection which is found in the shoutout box…do you honestly think that he is?
George Mekhaiel
Do you even know what fellowship is? Do you even understand what I am talking about? Do you even know what you are saying? Christ is indeed among our fellowship. You know nothing about me and my friends and how we are together towards each other. The better thing is that I will not justify myself to you. You are the one who was blinded by your self-righteousness and your desire to be a priest or a monk that you have become as what I like to call a spiritual bully. Think about it, because I'm not gonna explain myself to you. George, take time off and look at yourself, and do it seriously.
Do you remember the verse that Jesus said when He said that people will know you love me from the love you have for each other? (I paraphrased, but you know what I mean). Stop being blinded like that George. You are the one wasting time and your salvation, and in turn, making ours suffer.
Honestly, I feel attacked by that comment, and I've never been this angry in a very long time. You just attacked my character without knowing who I am. Do you honestly think God isn't in out midst? How can you tell? Did you suddenly jump to St. Anthony's spiritual level overnight or something? If He wasn't, where do you think I'd be now? Clearly not at the church or on this site. I've been to both the good and bad sides, so I know exactly what I am saying. Don't try to argue it.
_________________
For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned. - Matthew 12:37
+ To Protect and Preserve +
HCOC: Sing it! Live it! Love it!
posted on Sep 07, 2006 - 02:22 AM
From geomekhaiel: If you see a brother falling and he doesn’t ask for your help, don’t you still give it because you know the true danger of what your brother is doing?
That’s what I’m doing…
George Mekhaiel
George, I just wanted to highlight this quote that was said by YOU. You can't argue with yourself, because apparently you have thought everything over before writing it here. Anyways, on to the main point...
You're telling us we're sinning by wasting out time chatting with each other in the shoutbox, right? Ok, so clearly the majority of us are blind to the sin we are committing, and finally you came as a shining light to save us all from continuing in this horrible sin that could potentially be our ticket to hell, right? But nobody seems to be accepting your opinion on this matter, and it's probably frustrating you because you are trying to educate us, and help us become better people, but we're being really ignorant.
GEORGE...WAKE UP BUDDY! You are doing the same thing! How many people have asked you to examine yourself before you examine us? How many people have asked you to stop, and think about how you speak to others? How many people have told you that when you speak to us, you talk down to us? How many people have asked you to stop adivising them in a manner in which only their FoC should? (maybe I was the only one...) I just wanted to bring up this point because you think we are blind to our sins, and maybe that's true...but I just wanted to show you, you're right here in the same boat as us.
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*My deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, my deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure...*
*The penalty of sin is to face, not the anger of Jesus, but the heartbreak in his eyes...*
*God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts*
*Happy moments, praise God.
Difficult moments, seek God.
Quiet moments, worship God.
Painful moments, trust God.
Every moment, thank God.*
posted on Sep 07, 2006 - 02:44 AM
Matt,
I am sorry if you were offended by something I said.
But, I still hold to my opinion in that I don’t feel God’s presence in your midst. The, “Fellowship” which is displayed here, on copticheritage.org, is not the type that I see God pleased with. But the correct fellowship is the type that is completely always focused on Christ.
Faith,
What makes you think that I don’t examine myself? I do. I really do... You really have absolutely no idea how much time I’ve spent examining myself in this specific subject before even thought about bringing it up this week (and even during this week). This is a very delicate subject that is dangerous if gone unnoticed.
I don’t want to be a hypocrite….I want God to be pleased with me!
George Mekhaiel
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George Mekhaiel
posted on Sep 07, 2006 - 02:19 PM
From geomekhaiel:
. The issue is that I see everyone wasting time and not being spiritually focused ....
George Mekhaiel
you said that .. this is the second time im reminding the site about what u said .
after reposting ur quote here is my response ... Nigga ... r u insane ? .. or is the devil's hand that much in your brain ...yes .. NOT ON ... HES IN ... HOW CAN U say something like that , having the knowledge of what the sin of pride is ? and the sin of judgeing is ... christ himself said dont judge ... yet u are . .. i want to see ur defense for this statement that u made ... i want u to tell me u arent prideful , and u arent judgeing us in this statement .
little boy , just incase u havent gotten the jist of what were saying .... UR IN NO POSITION TO JUDGE . STOP ACTING AS IF UR GOD . OR PERHAPS .. U REALLY THINK U ARE GOD .... hmmm . time will tell .
From geomekhaiel:Matt,
I am sorry if you were offended by something I said.
But, I still hold to my opinion in that I don’t feel God’s presence in your midst.
R u god ? ... who the hell r u to be saying things like that? damn son i think ur just trying to mess with peoples heads or something , cuz this is getting ridiculous , not becuase of what ur saying ( ive heard it all before ) , but becuase that u actually believe what ur saying and u refuse to hear another opinion . which makes u close minded . ur like a pharasiee in our lord jesus christ days . u probably would of condemned christ as well for preforming miracles on the sabboth . again ... u look at the letter of the law , and now the heart of the law . ur so blind man , and i seriously feel bad for u . instead of being against u all this time , now i just wanna try to help u . WHO THE HELL R U TO SAY GOD IS NOT IN MATS PRESENCE OR WITH THE OTHER PEOPLE ON THIS SITE ?!?! U GOT SOME BALLS LITTLE BOY . number one fact is that god is everywhere , number 2 fact is that ur not god even though u make urself out to be god therefore u know nothing of gods whereabout nor are u obligated to know . , number 3 even if we are sinning , god wouldent leave us .... have u forgotten that god is love ? u hypocrite .
From geomekhaiel:
Faith,
What makes you think that I don’t examine myself? I do. I really do... You really have absolutely no idea how much time I’ve spent examining myself in this specific subject before even thought about bringing it up this week (and even during this week). This is a very delicate subject that is dangerous if gone unnoticed.
I don’t want to be a hypocrite….I want God to be pleased with me!
George Mekhaiel
do u really think at the end of this chat , he will be pleased with u saying people arent spiritual , people on this site are far from god . i wonder if ur on that spiritual level to decide who is near and far from god .
examine that .
to summarize
Nigga r u insane ? r u even reading the replies people send u ?
it seems ur just rambling on your own about a stance in which u cannot defend . It seems to me u suck at debateing and not only that , ur so concieted and full of pride that u cant seem to admit that u are wrong .
R u keeping up with me ?
go and See ur FOC ( suprised i took away ur famous replies to me to use it against u ? ) , and see what he says , then come back and tell us what he thought about what u did , and i want u to look in the mirror , and to REALLY examine if u changed an opinion about the shoutbox within the members ...
U hypocrite .Damn ur such a hypocrite , im actually wondering if ur just laughing behind the computer messing with our heads ... or if u really beleive in what ur saying .
-----------------
again ... here is a quote ... by socrates ... " only true wisdom is knowing that YOU know nothing "
COntemplateing flying to cali to see if he is forreal ,
tonyhabob
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posted on Sep 07, 2006 - 03:30 PM
I must say I didn't read through every post in this thread, I only read the first few posts, so forgive me if I am repeating anyone else's opinion.
I believe that the major issue here depend on each person's point of view of this site (copticheritage.org or coptichymns.net). if one's point of view about the site's goal is to gather a community of coptic youth in a christian communion, then by all means a shout box can be used to drop hello's and talk about what one ate last night. This should not be concidered non-Christian, in fact it promots the spirit of communion of saints, and, believe me, it is still within that body of Christ as long as it is all said and done in Love (i.e. God). On the other hand if one is looking at the site from the point of view of spreading the Orthodox belief as the sole, or at least the main, purpose. then absolutely talking about what you ate last night may not help the service of preaching, in fact it may distort it.
With all this said, I am trying to shift the focus to one point. There is definitly a great deal of confusion among the members about the site's mission. this may be the one factor that, if clearly defined, will resolve the issue at hand. This again should go back to the hands of the sites moderators and admins to bring this to light for all the members.
God bless.
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Pray for me,
<b>Moheb</b>
<i>"Till we all come in the <u>unity of the faith</u>, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, <b>unto a perfect man</b>, unto the measure of the stature of <u>the fulness of Christ</u>" (Ephesians 4:13)</i> <b>AMEN.</b>
"εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη" - <b>ιησου χριστου</b>
posted on Sep 07, 2006 - 07:12 PM
Matt has hit the nail straight on the head.
George, you are a spiritual bully.
All of your words are cloaked in God-talk, seemingly similar to biblical verses and the teachings of Christ.
But right now, your words are not bringing anyone closer to Christ. Everything you're saying is truly hurting and causing division.
You called Matt and his group of friends a den of evil or sin.
"I want God to be pleased with me."
This is the summation of your theology and thinking. You are doing everything possible in your sight to appease your guilty conscience, to appease the God you worship.
But I don't worship that God. Neither does anyone else on this site. Because the God you're trying to please is not the God of the Church, the God of the Bible, and the God of the hurting humanity the whole story of salvation is about.
This is all about you, George. This has nothing to do with us, copticheritage, or coptichymns. This has to do with your relentles, endless journey to make yourself better, more pleasing.
I don't know you and have never met you, but just from your words, you are conflicted and you are ill.
My and our God can save you. Your God won't.
Do you know why?
BECAUSE HE DOESNT BLOODY EXIST!
posted on Sep 08, 2006 - 01:43 AM
Wow, I can’t believe how much of a devil I must be…according to you tony and mina….. If I didn’t understand myself, then I would probably join the, “war against george mob” and carry a pick axe and a torch to come knock on my door and light a fire to hang myself on the steak.
Well, too bad…because I do know myself, and I do understand what I stand for. I stand for spiritual seriousness; focus on the right understand of Christianity, love for God, love for my brothers. ..
Now, if I didn’t care for spiritual seriousness would I have even noticed the problem of the shoutout box? If I didn’t want to have a right understanding of Christianity then should I have not mentioned this topic to everyone? If I didn’t love God then should I have not cared to take so much time to spread His truth? Now, if I didn’t love you, my brothers and sisters who are in Christ, then should I have not cared for taking soooo much time out of my busy week to spread His message? …..I am not trying to please myself…or raise my level of pride….I’m just trying to help!....even if you don’t my help, because I will be judged if I don’t open my mouth and proclaim what I feel…
Have I cursed anyone? No… But have I been cursed? Yes.. Have I called anyone satan? No... Have I been called satan? Yes… Have I accused anyone of worshipping a false God? No... But have I been accused of it? Yes… …..I must admit that none of this really bothered me except the one about worshiping a false God. I love Jesus Christ, who is my Father, Savior, Master and every other great name you can have for Him. And it really makes me sake sad to see someone say that about someone else who is just trying to help…
I think that all I did was present a topic that needed to be examined because I can see immediate fault in it. Someone said that I am being judgeful because I can automatically see the sin which I accuse people of doing….let me explain this…
Allow me give an example that might clear that accusation about me up : If you pass by two 14 year olds who are fornicating, can’t you tell that what they are doing is a sin? Wouldn’t you try to stop them and bring their attention to what they are doing? How about if these people belonged to your church? How about if they were your brother and sister? …without being weird or anything… It would bother you and you would do everything you could do to turn their attention to how what they are doing is not pleasing to God. ….There are some who will completely ridicule you, curse you, call you satan, and refuse to examine what you have to say…but for those you just have to pray for all the more. And, by grace, there are some who will understand what you are trying to say and will convert with a better understanding of God.
I am a servant…and it would be my God given duty to serve to the best of my ability….and I don’t take this responsibility (blessing) very lightly…
It really hurts me when people try to fight against God’s help (through my words) to them…even as I see them taking lightly what they are doing… But to those who are cursers against me I only really have one thing to say to you: God loves you and I see that you need Him (because we all do). I pray for you and hope that God will be attentive to the voice of my prayers and supplications…
George Mekhaiel
….may God help us all…
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George Mekhaiel
posted on Sep 08, 2006 - 02:43 AM
From geomekhaiel:I think that all I did was present a topic that needed to be examined because I can see immediate fault in it. Someone said that I am being judgeful because I can automatically see the sin which I accuse people of doing
George Mekhaiel
u automatically see the sin which u accuse people of doing ... <<~~~ thats what u just said .
R u GOD ? ... Who the hell r u to be accuseing ? ... U havent even proven your point yet u just have been stateing .. the shoutbox is a waste , and it is not spiritually benifitting .....
UR STATEING A HYPOTHESIS , YET UR NOT SHOWING US experiments to prove how uve come to ur conclusion . To say that god is not in our midst is very dangerous to say .. im just so flabber gasted to wonder how to hell can u say something like that ? .... and u say u go to church ? ... let me tell u something ... Whereever the devil is tempting a child of god .... the father is always there . the father ( jesus ) never leaves ..... EVEN on the shoutbox ...
----
in my opinion , i think its people like u , that make people that made ghandi say > I'd be a christian , if it werent for the christian "
George , Learn to be humble , dont force ur HIgh spiritual state upon us , becuase u are in no position to accuse nor judge , nor say where god is and whom his love goes to .
misteka put it best , and perhaps this is why his comments hurt u ... maybe u should exammine who u hurt with ur comments .
my thoughts at the moment
_________________
( insert Cool Signature here , think original )
posted on Sep 08, 2006 - 08:17 AM
From geomekhaiel:
Now, if I didn’t care for spiritual seriousness would I have even noticed the problem of the shoutout box? If I didn’t want to have a right understanding of Christianity then should I have not mentioned this topic to everyone? If I didn’t love God then should I have not cared to take so much time to spread His truth?
The truth of God is spread by those whom God has called from His Church which all people would automatically know it's His voice speaking.
How many people have been convicted of their supposed sin because your preaching? How many people have had an awakening as a result of your words? Show me the people who have truly turned away and I'll step down.
Now, if I didn’t love you, my brothers and sisters who are in Christ, then should I have not cared for taking soooo much time out of my busy week to spread His message? …..I am not trying to please myself…or raise my level of pride….I’m just trying to help!....even if you don’t my help, because I will be judged if I don’t open my mouth and proclaim what I feel… (emphasis mine)
Your busy week? Did anyone ask you? Did God ask you? It must feel awesome to take a minute of your busy week and try to save us. How busy can you be at 17?
What you feel or what you know? Did you take your feelings to your FoC or some trusted guide, and asked him or her to help you discern your feelings and thoughts? Or did you just act on a whim?
Have I cursed anyone? No… But have I been cursed? Yes.. Have I called anyone satan? No... Have I been called satan? Yes… Have I accused anyone of worshipping a false God? No... But have I been accused of it? Yes… …..I must admit that none of this really bothered me except the one about worshiping a false God. I love Jesus Christ, who is my Father, Savior, Master and every other great name you can have for Him. And it really makes me sake sad to see someone say that about someone else who is just trying to help…
During your upcoming busy week, learn how to read English and get your eyes checked. No one called you Satan and no one cursed you.
If you have no pride issues, then accept the words of me, Tony, Biboboy, Moheb, Matt, etc and step away from this thread.
I just said you're going in the wrong direction. Cursing you would be calling you a dog or sack of faeces or insulting your family.
I think that all I did was present a topic that needed to be examined because I can see immediate fault in it. Someone said that I am being judgeful because I can automatically see the sin which I accuse people of doing….let me explain this…
No, you presented a topic that you felt was very important and needing of examination. to you. No one said in the middle of a shoutbox,"Like, omg, we totally like need to stop talking about lighthearted stuff. I mean like, what if we're wasting time and chasing away Jesus from this collection of HTML tags and PHP code, i mean website?"
Allow me give an example that might clear that accusation about me up : If you pass by two 14 year olds who are fornicating, can’t you tell that what they are doing is a sin? Wouldn’t you try to stop them and bring their attention to what they are doing? How about if these people belonged to your church? How about if they were your brother and sister? …without being weird or anything… It would bother you and you would do everything you could do to turn their attention to how what they are doing is not pleasing to God. ….There are some who will completely ridicule you, curse you, call you satan, and refuse to examine what you have to say…but for those you just have to pray for all the more. And, by grace, there are some who will understand what you are trying to say and will convert with a better understanding of God.
Uhm, if you tried to break up two people fornicating, you would either get shouted at or chased away by an aroused, irate man. And the girl would be trying to cover herself up. And in the moment, no one will be listening to anything remotely doing with God if they're in the middle of fornication. Weak example/analogy.
What servants usually do is first love them and love them some more. And maybe then gain their trust. And then get to know them. And then try to reach out to them. And then, just maybe then, they'll say something. Who would just automatically listen to some stranger walking up to them and saying,"OMG! Stop fornicating! I'm here by mandate from God, I have the badge, this is SIN!"
Verbal intervention is not the only way God intervenes in our life. Sometimes, God does His greatest work by doing, saying nothing.
It really hurts me when people try to fight against God’s help (through my words) to them…even as I see them taking lightly what they are doing… But to those who are cursers against me I only really have one thing to say to you: God loves you and I see that you need Him (because we all do). I pray for you and hope that God will be attentive to the voice of my prayers and supplications…
posted on Sep 08, 2006 - 08:22 PM
From geomekhaiel:Matt,
I am sorry if you were offended by something I said.
But, I still hold to my opinion in that I don’t feel God’s presence in your midst. The, “Fellowship” which is displayed here, on copticheritage.org, is not the type that I see God pleased with. But the correct fellowship is the type that is completely always focused on Christ.
I honestly think you have given up on thinking. Your rationality has left you, George. Do you think that most of my dealings with my friends are on this site and nowhere off the site? Just to let you know, you don't know of what me and my friends talk about. On the site, I feel as if we are a family, so talking about anything is great. It displays our fellowship in Christ, something you should look for. We do not ignore God at all nor do we talk about worldy stuff as you think we do. Let me give you a hint: It has to do with God. Everything can and does relate to God in the end. If you don't believe this, then I frankly don't care because I don't have to justify myself to you.
Also, learn to be grateful, George, for seeing such an active Coptic Orthodox site. Just a bit of statistics to make you understand what I mean: over 96% of the Internet is nothing but porn, and the Internet is full of websites; they can be counted to the billions!
You don't feel God because God is not in you. In fact, He's very far away from you. You are suffering of self-righteousness and false humility. Your spirituality should not be a competition against other people or to fulfill your desire to be a monk or a priest, it should be for God. Forget even yourself! You do your part, and let God take care of the rest. If He sees you fit as a clergyman, He will grant you His grace for you to become one. Other than that, stop dreaming. Go step by step, day by day.
Stop caring for other peoples' spirituality as if you are some kind of spiritual doctor. Worry about your salvation first, and then come help us out. Don't have the notion of being self-sacrificial and worrying about other people's salvation and not your own. You will regret this, I promise.
George, I am the type of person who doesn't stay angry very long, and needs alot to anger me, and you have miraculously accomplished both. I take my hat off to you on that part.
George, I am praying for you, and asking God to force Himself through your heart and head of steel. Clearly, you're not part of the solution, but of them problem. To make matters worse, the problem only started after you started to to take a stand against it and condemn everybody that is against you.
Stop being Rambo. You're harming yourself and you don't even realize it.
_________________
For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned. - Matthew 12:37
+ To Protect and Preserve +
HCOC: Sing it! Live it! Love it!
posted on Sep 09, 2006 - 12:12 AM
Tony,
I’m not happy with what you did with my quote because you took my quote and stuck my signature right underneath it to make me appear as I have accepted your point. But if you continue reading, you will find that I stated why I DIDN’T accept your points. You are being sneaky in order to make me look bad. I am not accepting what you said..please go and read what I wrote after that quote…It goes something like this:
I think that all I did was present a topic that needed to be examined because I can see immediate fault in it. Someone said that I am being judgeful because I can automatically see the sin which I accuse people of doing….let me explain this…
Allow me give an example that might clear that accusation about me up : If you pass by two 14 year olds who are fornicating, can’t you tell that what they are doing is a sin? Wouldn’t you try to stop them and bring their attention to what they are doing? How about if these people belonged to your church? How about if they were your brother and sister? …without being weird or anything… It would bother you and you would do everything you could do to turn their attention to how what they are doing is not pleasing to God. ….There are some who will completely ridicule you, curse you, call you satan, and refuse to examine what you have to say…but for those you just have to pray for all the more. And, by grace, there are some who will understand what you are trying to say and will convert with a better understanding of God.
I am a servant…and it would be my God given duty to serve to the best of my ability….and I don’t take this responsibility (blessing) very lightly…
It really hurts me when people try to fight against God’s help (through my words) to them…even as I see them taking lightly what they are doing… But to those who are cursers against me I only really have one thing to say to you: God loves you and I see that you need Him (because we all do). I pray for you and hope that God will be attentive to the voice of my prayers and supplications…
George Mekhaiel
I would never end my thought like that….but I explained what I meant in the next paragraph. You, on the other hand, decided to make me look bad so you only showed the first paragraph and then my signature. That’s very sneaky and underhanded…its not how to carry an discussion.
….
I don’t think that I am God….
Tony, please notice that your language is getting a little angry and I suggest you either calm down or avoid this topic…if it’s going to anger you.
George Mekhaiel
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George Mekhaiel
posted on Sep 09, 2006 - 12:13 AM
Misteka,
How many people have been convicted of their supposed sin because your preaching? How many people have had an awakening as a result of your words? Show me the people who have truly turned away and I'll step down.
..come to the church where I serve and see…
Your busy week? Did anyone ask you? Did God ask you? It must feel awesome to take a minute of your busy week and try to save us. How busy can you be at 17?
Firstly of all, I’m 18. Secondly, I very busy between school, work, and church. I’m a full time student, a part time worker, and a full time servant…. I’m glad you feel awesome to take a minute from my busy week to try to save you. But, I can’t save you, only Christ can…I’m can just try to point in the right direction.
What you feel or what you know? Did you take your feelings to your FoC or some trusted guide, and asked him or her to help you discern your feelings and thoughts? Or did you just act on a whim?
Oh, I know…I do know…
During your upcoming busy week, learn how to read English and get your eyes checked. No one called you Satan and no one cursed you.
If you have no pride issues, then accept the words of me, Tony, Biboboy, Moheb, Matt, etc and step away from this thread.
I just said you're going in the wrong direction. Cursing you would be calling you a dog or sack of faeces or insulting your family.
No, it’s just I don’t trust your so called, “truth.” It just doesn’t feel right, I know it’s not right …Go have your eyes checked, because if you read the other posts you will see what I meant….
No, you presented a topic that you felt was very important and needing of examination. to you. No one said in the middle of a shoutbox,"Like, omg, we totally like need to stop talking about lighthearted stuff. I mean like, what if we're wasting time and chasing away Jesus from this collection of HTML tags and PHP code, i mean website?
No one would ever say something like that in the shoutout because because the shoutout box is spiritually dead… There is completely no spiritual talk in there…
Uhm, if you tried to break up two people fornicating, you would either get shouted at or chased away by an aroused, irate man. And the girl would be trying to cover herself up. And in the moment, no one will be listening to anything remotely doing with God if they're in the middle of fornication. Weak example/analogy.
What servants usually do is first love them and love them some more. And maybe then gain their trust. And then get to know them. And then try to reach out to them. And then, just maybe then, they'll say something. Who would just automatically listen to some stranger walking up to them and saying,"OMG! Stop fornicating! I'm here by mandate from God, I have the badge, this is SIN!"
Verbal intervention is not the only way God intervenes in our life. Sometimes, God does His greatest work by doing, saying nothing.
First of all, don’t look at the letter of the example but instead look at the idea behind it. Here’s another one for you: If you saw your own brother and sister fighting wouldn’t you stop them? How about your Sunday school kids? How about class mates? How about just any two people at church who you remotely know? Why would you stop them? Because you know that what they are doing is wrong and not pleasing to God…
Stop looking at the letter but rather the idea…
George Mekhaiel
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George Mekhaiel
posted on Sep 09, 2006 - 12:13 AM
Matt,
I honestly think you have given up on thinking. Your rationality has left you, George. Do you think that most of my dealings with my friends are on this site and nowhere off the site? Just to let you know, you don't know of what me and my friends talk about. On the site, I feel as if we are a family, so talking about anything is great. It displays our fellowship in Christ, something you should look for. We do not ignore God at all nor do we talk about worldy stuff as you think we do. Let me give you a hint: It has to do with God. Everything can and does relate to God in the end. If you don't believe this, then I frankly don't care because I don't have to justify myself to you.
I’m not careing about your dealings with your friends outside this site, but I do care about how you deal with people in a spiritual atmosphere. In a spiritual atmosphere (like what a Christian site should have) we should be able to speak spiritually and not have to keep our minds focused in the world.
Matt, there is something wrong with the point you made, which was, “Everything can and does relate to God in the end.” I want to rewrite it: Everything can relate to God, but God can’t relate to everything. Do you see what I mean? …think about it, I think its deep…
Also, learn to be grateful, George, for seeing such an active Coptic Orthodox site. Just a bit of statistics to make you understand what I mean: over 96% of the Internet is nothing but porn, and the Internet is full of websites; they can be counted to the billions!
Matt, I think that just because the internet is full of bad websites doesn’t give us permission to slack off on ours. We need to focus on how we can make our site the best in the eyes of God. We don’t need to focus on how to make it the best compared to the sites on the internet.
In order to make it the best in the eyes of God then we need to remain spiritually focused…
You don't feel God because God is not in you. In fact, He's very far away from you. You are suffering of self-righteousness and false humility. Your spirituality should not be a competition against other people or to fulfill your desire to be a monk or a priest, it should be for God. Forget even yourself! You do your part, and let God take care of the rest. If He sees you fit as a clergyman, He will grant you His grace for you to become one. Other than that, stop dreaming. Go step by step, day by day.
Stop caring for other peoples' spirituality as if you are some kind of spiritual doctor. Worry about your salvation first, and then come help us out. Don't have the notion of being self-sacrificial and worrying about other people's salvation and not your own. You will regret this, I promise.
George, I am the type of person who doesn't stay angry very long, and needs alot to anger me, and you have miraculously accomplished both. I take my hat off to you on that part.
George, I am praying for you, and asking God to force Himself through your heart and head of steel. Clearly, you're not part of the solution, but of them problem. To make matters worse, the problem only started after you started to to take a stand against it and condemn everybody that is against you.
Stop being Rambo. You're harming yourself and you don't even realize it.
I do feel God, and God is in me…there is no reason for me to even discuss this…
I know my own heart and I know if I am, “suffering of self-righteousness and false humility.” I examine myself and should know….
Spiritually is not a competition, but all that I am doing is helping. I will only try to help for so long before I just wipe the dust of my feet and leave you because you refuse to accept a good message.
I do worry about my own salvation first. I have examined this subject in myself before I did on the internet with everyone else…
If you are getting angry then I suggest that you stay away from this thread because the last thing that I would like is for you to sin on an account of the subject which we are discussing. Don’t get angry.
Matt, God is in my heart and is the force which drives me to push so hard against this problem.
George Mekhaiel
_________________
George Mekhaiel
posted on Sep 09, 2006 - 12:13 AM
Finally, to everyone,
Everyone, please understand, can we please stop arguing with one another and focus on the subject. Stop trying to examine me but examine the subject which I present. If you want to examine me then go ahead a start a thread about me (I don’t really want you to, but if it will keep you from staying focused in this thread then by all means go right ahead)… but here, in this thread, please remain focused on the real issue.
There is just a simple question that I wish everyone would just examine, which is: Is wasting time approved by God? (especially in a spiritual website)
George Mekhaiel
_________________
George Mekhaiel
posted on Sep 09, 2006 - 12:33 AM
¿ Iryny nem agapy>
I had told someone that I wasn't going to reply to this thread again, seeing as how it has side-tracked a wee bit, but since you raise the question again, I feel compelled to answer.
George you ask:
From geomekhaiel: Is wasting time approved by God? (especially in a spiritual website)
George Mekhaiel
That is not the issue. I don't think that a single person on this site will argue that God approves us wasting our time. We should be active either in our studies, our work or our service. What everyone is arguing is how you equate the shoutbox with 'wasting time'. As I've said before, and I reiterate now, the shoutbox is no different than using msn or email to communicate with friends that you wouldn't normally see everyday. That is not wasting time at all. Now, seeing as how you are not privy to seeing what everyone is doing while they are using the shoutbox, you have no way of knowing what exactly they are doing besides posting a shoutout. For all you know they could very well be reading their notes or searching the net for Sunday School material or preparing for a Bible study. I sincerely doubt that anyone is just sitting at their computer posting a shoutout and then just waiting for someone to shout back. Thus, since you cannot unequivocally say that anyone here is wasting their time posting a shout, the issue you raise is moot.
On a side note (more to lighten the mood than anything else): is there any reason the coptic fonts don't work (i.e. display) on copticheritage.org, or is it just my computer?
Please pray for me.
_________________
Cevac ¨
<ere peniwt Abba Paule pimenrit `nte P=,=c
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
-- Philippians 4:13
"Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!"
-- Mark 9:24
"Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart."
-- Jeremiah 29:12-13
posted on Sep 09, 2006 - 01:34 AM
Cephas,
Thank you for helping bring the subject back on track….
You have stated your opinion, which is that people can use the shoutout box and still live very great spiritual lives… I agree with it, but not fully.
Let me tell you want I think… I think that if this were true then the shoutout box would have at least some spiritual words in it. But all I ever seem to find in it is void and idle talk that has nothing at all to do with spiritual growth. This shows that there is something wrong with the spiritual lives of the people using it…no offence, I could be wrong, but this is something that can be inferred…if this is true….
Now, I’m not saying that we should avoid the, ‘evil’ shoutout box, but let’s just pay more attention to how we use it. How about we start putting nice verses in it, nice quotes from the fathers, a link to another good church site, a prayer request, the title of a good book, a link to a good hymn or sermon or picture or anything that is spiritually enhancing.
But nooooo! People would rather talk about songs, cars, food, mean messages etc…
So, here’s my summary: We need to remain spiritually focused (especially on a spiritual site). We don’t need to let worldly issues arise, but instead, we should remain focused and grow in spirit together. This pleases Christ.
Does anyone find a problem with that statement?
George Mekhaiel
_________________
George Mekhaiel
posted on Sep 09, 2006 - 03:31 AM
¿ Iryny nem agapy>
Okay, to address your points, you said:
From geomekhaiel:
Let me tell you want I think… I think that if this were true then the shoutout box would have at least some spiritual words in it.
Habibi, that is what the forums are for.
From geomekhaiel:This shows that there is something wrong with the spiritual lives of the people using it…no offence, I could be wrong, but this is something that can be inferred…if this is true….
*sigh* It is these sort of statements that get you into trouble. It is these statements that make you appear to be arrogant and self-righteous. You are in no position to critique any person's spiritual life whatsoever, seeing as how you are not anyone's FoC, or spiritual adviser. You are no better than anyone else here. Thus, I think it would be wise not to make comments like this in the future.
From geomekhaiel:Now, I’m not saying that we should avoid the, ‘evil’ shoutout box, but let’s just pay more attention to how we use it. How about we start putting nice verses in it, nice quotes from the fathers, a link to another good church site, a prayer request, the title of a good book, a link to a good hymn or sermon or picture or anything that is spiritually enhancing.
Again George, that is what the forums are for. I believe there is an entire section dedicated to Prayer requests, Book lists, Church sites, etc. The purpose of the shoutbox is, as I mentioned before, the same as MSN or email. It is to keep in touch with friends. If you wish to use it for the ideas you put forth above, by all means do so. But again, do not critizise others for not doing that, and using the shoutbox to simply chit-chat with one another.
From geomekhaiel:So, here’s my summary: We need to remain spiritually focused (especially on a spiritual site). We don’t need to let worldly issues arise, but instead, we should remain focused and grow in spirit together. This pleases Christ.
Again, trying to establish the level of a person's spirituality based solely on a shoutbox, is a grievous error. That is like taking a snapshop of a person at a moment of weakness in their life, and then condemning them forever as an unrepentant sinner. You do not know what is going on behind the scenes after the person has posted a shout. Furthermore, worldly issues cannot (and should not) be avoided. We live in the world, and to want to avoid 'worldy' issues, just because they are very real, and we deal with them on a daily basis, is naive to say the least. To avoid worldly issues, one must leave the world entirely, and again, as was said before, the only way to truly do that, while on Earth, is to go to a monestary and live there permanently. And even there, one cannot escape worldy issues. I've come across stories in the Paradise of the Fathers, and if I recall correctly, in the life of St. Paul the first Anchorite, where these holy men have asked about news of what is happening in the world. If these men, who have dedicated their lives to prayer and contemplation are concerned about the world in which they live, why should you expect more of us who live in the world?
Once again, moderation is the key. I cannot stress that enough. And just because you don't see any 'spirituality' in the shoutbox does not mean that the individuals posting in it are not spiritual. They simply have chosen to talk to their friends, and save the spiritual for their private lives.
"Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secred; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly. And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly." (Matthew 6:1-6)
A person's spiritual life is a private matter, not to be put on display in a shoutbox or anywhere else for that matter. So once again I stress the matter, you cannot form an opinion of anyone's spiritual life based on a shoutbox. That is not the purpose of the shoutbox at all.
Please pray for me.
_________________
Cevac ¨
<ere peniwt Abba Paule pimenrit `nte P=,=c
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
-- Philippians 4:13
"Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!"
-- Mark 9:24
"Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart."
-- Jeremiah 29:12-13
posted on Sep 09, 2006 - 04:09 AM
Cephas,
A couple of points:
1. You are going against your whole reason for posting, which was to remain focused. But you, as others, are insisting on not focusing on what I say, but rather, how I say it. Although I, being someone who also becomes concerned when I feel as though others might be falling into sin can relate to where you’re coming from…you’re just trying to look out for me. But, again, please let’s just remain focused.
2. I believe that the forums aren’t the only place where we can focus, spiritually. But, I believe that we can also try to focus spiritually in all areas of the site. (ie: the shoutout box).
3. I also don’t believe that we should use the shoutout box for sending messages (such as an email) to a friend. I think that that is the point of the pm feature, which everyone has.
4. I am not trying to, “establish a person’s spiritual level based on what they write in the shoutout box.” All I’m saying is that it indicates that that person needs to focus a little more, especially on a church website. FOCUS!!!!
George Mekhaiel
_________________
George Mekhaiel
posted on Sep 09, 2006 - 03:24 PM
Agape,
Oh my... I go for a few days and come back to see a whole lot more on this topic. It really saddens me to see all this going on for a simple little box on the bottom left pane of the website.
At any rate, I've already sent my response earlier on the topic, and I still think it holds true. I'm sorry, George, I don't agree with what you said, and I don't like how you portrayed yourself as a prophet of God's message to us sinners. Although your message is similar in nature to that of the prophets, you're not sent by God to be a prophet on this site - so unless you get an approval by the Church authorities or extremely clear signs from God like the prophets of old, do not pass judgement on people's spiritual lives in public and tell them to change their ways as though you are a prophet.
I appreciate your concern on the spirituality of the site, and I certainly agree that it should remain a spiritual site. However, I don't think that at the present time the spirituality of the site is harmed - because I don't agree with your definition of what consists of spirituality. People talking casually to each other is not the same as talking idle talk, because they are maintaining and growing in a Christian fellowship. If you think of getting married, you'll be talking to your wife about the love you have for her, and if you get children, you'll be talking about the love you have for them, and will have to discuss so much about their life and concern yourself with their problems. To talk about such family and worldly things is not sinful, but is important, because that's the way we grow in Christ in the world.
In short, you're wrong in identifying "worldly" talk as sinful - even this "worldly" talk and concerns may be used in a spiritual way and helps us grow spiritually in Christ.
"I am not asking you to take them out of the world, but I ask you to protect them from the evil one" (John 17:15).
Topic closed.
_________________
"Our hearts are restless until they find rest in You, Lord" (St. Augustine, Confessions, I, 1).
"Pray gently and calmly,
Chant hymns with understanding and rhythm;
Then you will soar like a young eagle
High in the heavens"
+ St. Evagrius the Solitary, On Prayer, 82.
In Christ,
Bishoy
HCOC Member
+ To Protect and Preserve +
HCOC: Sing it! Live it! Love it!
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