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Coptic*George

posted on Feb 02, 2007 - 02:18 AM

Hey guys

I was watching a video on youtube of some Egyptian Muslim cleric a week ago. I think the video was basically about the Palestine/Israel issue. Anyways, in the video he claimed that even our Pope is against the Israeli occupation and that he made a public announcement saying "we (Copts) will not go into Jerusalem and make pilgrimage without our Muslim brothers and until the occupation is over". Assuming the comment is true, why would the Pope make such comment? I thought what made us stand out from the other churches is that we stayed out of political issues. And even if we did pick sides, we are picking the WRONG one, I mean we all know that Palestinians are not innocent people and it is Israel who wants peace.


can someone with some free time please clarify this with me?

Joined: Nov 28, 2004 | Posts: 5

Iqbal

posted on Feb 02, 2007 - 03:05 AM

"I mean we all know that Palestinians are not innocent people and it is Israel who wants peace."

I recommend a little less CNN and a little more reality.

Joined: Nov 14, 2004 | Posts: 124

guest

posted on Feb 02, 2007 - 03:52 AM

Coptic*George,

"And even if we did pick sides, we are picking the WRONG one, I mean we all know that Palestinians are not innocent people and it is Israel who wants peace."

In all honesty, the way I personally see the situation is that the only "wrong" side is one which reduces the conflict into black and white. Any research into the history of the conflict and the current situation will quickly show that neither side is entirely innocent and neither side has shown a resolute or uncompromising attempt at peace.

With respect to the Pope's comments, I don't necessarily think they are an attempt to "pick a side." I simply think he is making a statement against Israel's illegal occupation of much of the Palestinian lands.

Another issue to consider in the context of the modern political scene in Egypt (if you are familiar with it) is : what are the implications if the Pope did not prevent Copts from going to Jerusalem? My guess is the Copts may be viewed as traitors and their patriotism questioned if there is any substantial level of "pilgrimage."

Either way, I am sure you would agree with me in saying the Pope has the wisdom to decide when to involve the Church in a political issue and what statements to make. Sometimes we might not see the entire reasoning behind the statements, but that doesn't necessarily mean there is none.

May God keep the life of our honored Pope and continue to grant him the wisdom and strength to shepherd His flock in peace and love.

Joined: Jan 25, 2005 | Posts: 58

exGreek

posted on Feb 02, 2007 - 08:06 AM

Well, ultimately the Freemasonic "powers that be" are behind it all. They wanted to recreate the ancient "enlightened" Hiramic golden age in the Holy Land so that they could rebuild the Temple and thus sancify the earth with the "masonic-ized" sanctuary they claim descendence from. This is what it's really about. The British Mandate and the subsequent pro-zionist attitude of America care nothing about the Jews (well, except for the freemasonic ones like Rothschild who pumped millions to Israel) per se.

Joined: Oct 28, 2004 | Posts: 1381
Location: Spring Lake, Michigan

exGreek

posted on Feb 02, 2007 - 11:39 AM

wowsers!.....I half-way believe what I just wrote. I was all hopped up on caffeine when I wrote that.....all paranoid and what-have-you....freemasons and Illuminatuses were veritably crawling out of my ears.

Joined: Oct 28, 2004 | Posts: 1381
Location: Spring Lake, Michigan

tonyhabibi

posted on Feb 02, 2007 - 01:21 PM

I personally agree with some , that no one is really innoccent in this conflict .

... man .... even after some 60 years , this conflict hasnet been resolved , ...

if i personally had to weigh it , i would say , that in the begining the palistinians were just in their cause , , and were indeed right , how would u feel if i just kicked u out your own house ? and told u to leave . then u move into distant lands into refugee camps , and ur pride , and dignity , and your background are lost , you dont have a homeland anymore . your forced to live in other arab states , who dont even want u really , and they let u live in refugee camps.
cant get a job , cuz lebanese people wont hire palistinians . and it was at one point , unlawful for a palistinian to work in lebanon , legitimatlly .

sidenote ::: one of the main factors of the LEBANESE CIVIL WAR WAS THE PALISTINIANS LIVING IN LEANESE REFUGEE CAMPS . they were trying to liberate their land ...... in beirut . .... in lebanon .....

ahh polotics polotics . all in vain .

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Coptic*George

posted on Feb 04, 2007 - 01:56 AM

Thank you guys for your opinion's on the matter. In general I agree with all of you that both sides have wronged each other, and all that bloodshed for a land is not worth it. However, I do worry about anything said about Israelis that might make them seem like the enemy, even if its from ultra orthodox Jews themselves. I say this because most Israelis are Jews, and anti-antisemitism can flare very easily in the Arab world (and the rest of the world).

Joined: Nov 28, 2004 | Posts: 5

Remnkemi

posted on Feb 05, 2007 - 05:31 PM

CopticGeorge and all,

Can you give us a reference to this interview on Youtube? As far as I can tell, this Muslim cleric misused Pope Shenouda's words for his own benefit.

Many years ago, Pope Shenouda declared that no Copt can go to the Holy Land, until Dayr al Sultan is returned to the Copts. The issue has nothing to do with the Palestinians. I am guessing this Muslim cleric took a true declaration and added false reasoning.

Now I can't blame only the Muslim cleric. Even Copts assume and speculate when it comes to Muslim relations. And when we talk about war, opinion and emotions take over. I think talking about politics is good for 30 seconds. After that, as Tony Habibi said, "politics, politics, all in vain."

Let's talk about spiritually befitting things. Let's meditate on the heavenly rather than the earthly. And finally, let's pray for God's salvation to come.
George

Joined: Apr 07, 2003 | Posts: 669
Location: Boston, MA USA

guest

posted on Feb 05, 2007 - 10:49 PM

Not exactly from the most reliable source but check out:

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/D ... 13036.html

I believe the Pope has made a statement to that effect on several occasions. I think a little research on Google can direct you to the exact quote.

Joined: Jan 25, 2005 | Posts: 58

tonyhabibi

posted on Feb 05, 2007 - 11:14 PM

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/a ... 005875.php

check that out .

can anyone tell me why there is a ban on copts going to israel for religious reasons ?

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