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Remnkemi

posted on Oct 15, 2003 - 05:59 PM

From ramez mikhail:`Ctevanoc means cross??

wat about Ctauroc?

Ctevanoc means crown. Ctauroc means cross.
George

Joined: Apr 07, 2003 | Posts: 669
Location: Boston, MA USA

Mike

posted on Oct 16, 2003 - 02:56 AM

Hey everyone,

I read this a long time ago, so my exact memory of it is sort of vague. A book I read said the "over the shoulder" butrashein is called malak Mikhail because it is a symbol of the wings of the angels (when those deacons move, the butrashein "flutters"). The other form "cross style" is shaped in such a way that it symbolizes a servant (similar to how the priest wraps the cloth around his waist during the Laqqan service in the form of Christ's servitude to his disciples).

Have any of you heard or read this before?

Joined: Mar 25, 2003 | Posts: 5
Location: St. Louis, MO

egyptianhomeboy

posted on Oct 16, 2003 - 03:18 AM

I think I know what you're talking about. When the stole is put on the cross way, it comes around the waste and makes it look like a belt. So I think that's what it relates to the laqqan with abouna. I also heard that the belt look represents that as deacons we should be prepared and ready.

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Michael Fam

Saint Marina Coptic Orthodox Church

Joined: Jul 28, 2003 | Posts: 782
Location: California

geomekhaiel

posted on Oct 16, 2003 - 03:51 AM

Hay everybody,

I think that epsaltos shouldn't wear the butrashein, because when I got ordained (by Anba Serapion)... I was carrying the butrashaell, and first of all, Anba Serapion didn't say anything and he also sort of put it around my shoulder...but really didn't seem to want me to wear it, but I didn't wear it because it is said that epsaltos should not wear it! I don't think it really matters if you don't wear it (no one is going to yell at you).

George Mekhaiel

Joined: Aug 05, 2003 | Posts: 1710
Location: Saint George COC

petros04

posted on Oct 16, 2003 - 04:26 AM

Has anyway found a correct taqs book on this yet? From what I know, I agree with the the southern diocese website (the only taqs we have so far). Of course though in many churches a lot of deacons just wear it however they want because they have not been told otherwise (for example in my church pittsburgh for longest time even till now every deacon wears their batrashal on their right shoulder). But if any of you are trying to follow the taqs, the best source right now is what is written on the southern diocese's deacons website.

Petros

Joined: Jun 14, 2003 | Posts: 261
Location: Miami, FL

petros04

posted on Oct 16, 2003 - 04:28 AM

sorry I meant has anyone found a taqs book on this yet? It starts gettin hard to type in the wee hours of the morning.

Joined: Jun 14, 2003 | Posts: 261
Location: Miami, FL

Mike

posted on Oct 16, 2003 - 04:35 PM

It might be a good idea to take a look at a picture posted on the British Orthodox website,

http://www.uk-christian.net/boc/gallery2.shtml

Notice the way the butrasheins are worn with their corresponding ranks in the caption below.

Joined: Mar 25, 2003 | Posts: 5
Location: St. Louis, MO

EgyTony

posted on Oct 17, 2003 - 12:09 AM

wow the "Reader" position is pretty big over there

Joined: Jan 30, 2003 | Posts: 394
Location: Orlando/Tallahassee, FL

EgyTony

posted on Oct 17, 2003 - 12:11 AM

notice also how the first reader isnt wearing his patrashel but the guy who got ordained is, its clockwork...u wear it strong for the first couple of weeks then after ur like "eh, i give up" and just start reppin it epsaltos style

Joined: Jan 30, 2003 | Posts: 394
Location: Orlando/Tallahassee, FL

egyptianhomeboy

posted on Oct 17, 2003 - 10:06 PM

so what are the languages for patrashell and badrashein?

_________________
Your Servant,
Michael Fam

Saint Marina Coptic Orthodox Church

Joined: Jul 28, 2003 | Posts: 782
Location: California

Overgrownegyptian

posted on Oct 20, 2003 - 03:59 PM

Lol i stopped wearing my badrashein..its too heavy..plus i think i lost it, so i dont think i have one anymore..plus right after church all i have to do is take off my tonia and thats it and go straight to subway..the badrashein makes things more complicated lol

Joined: Sep 23, 2003 | Posts: 245
Location: St. Mary and St. George COC [tallahassee, fl] l St. George COC [tampa, fl]

Andrew

posted on Oct 20, 2003 - 04:33 PM

From EgyTony:notice also how the first reader isnt wearing his patrashel but the guy who got ordained is, its clockwork...u wear it strong for the first couple of weeks then after ur like "eh, i give up" and just start reppin it epsaltos style

hmmmm....
The one not wearing the stole is the 'newly ordained reader' the one wearing it like a cross is the 'under (sub) deacon' and the one wearing it over his shoulder and the hat is the deacon.

Personally I don't see any excuse for not wearing a stole if your supposed to. I mean you hear the same example 100's of times in that you wouldn't goto school or work without uniform so don't you think its a terrible shame to goto visit God and stand before him without wearing full uniform.... in the language of the school yard 'whats the punishment for that I wonder?'

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Joined: Jan 28, 2003 | Posts: 1094
Location: St. Mark's COC, London.

pkpavlos

posted on Oct 21, 2003 - 02:44 AM

In our church, Psaltos don't wear badrashels at all. Only Oghnostos (cross-style) and subdeacons (over-left-shoulder style) do.

I hope they're forgiven!

Joined: Feb 07, 2003 | Posts: 5

EgyTony

posted on Oct 22, 2003 - 12:07 AM

Andrew, u have the picture all wrong baba, the newly ordained guy is wearing the stole the other one isnt, its part of the 401K for elderly ranks, so kind of u dont have to wear it if u quote unquote know ur roll, u see what i mean here drew? however there is the other side of the argument which i believe is very extreme where deacons should act as if in the military, anybody out of uniform gets put in the deacons room from 0800 hours to about 1100 hours, hagga zay kidda, point being, if ur going to dress as a shamas or as a stole wearing man dont take the mick, in other words "estahzen" before u change the dress code

Joined: Jan 30, 2003 | Posts: 394
Location: Orlando/Tallahassee, FL

petros04

posted on Oct 22, 2003 - 12:21 AM

lol

Joined: Jun 14, 2003 | Posts: 261
Location: Miami, FL

egyptianhomeboy

posted on Oct 22, 2003 - 12:39 AM

guys, i want a number on the back of my tonia LOL
I'm always telling the head deacon to "put me in, coach"

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Your Servant,
Michael Fam

Saint Marina Coptic Orthodox Church

Joined: Jul 28, 2003 | Posts: 782
Location: California

geomekhaiel

posted on Oct 23, 2005 - 05:29 AM

haha...i deleted my other thread, because i found this one..... So, yeah, please tell me more on the rite of the psaltos wearing the Butrashaell...

George Mekhaiel

Joined: Aug 05, 2003 | Posts: 1710
Location: Saint George COC