abahoor
posted on Apr 16, 2007 - 03:14 PM
From Biboboy:Christ is risen,
One thing that bothered me in one of the posts above - it quoted the Gospel to approve of infringing copyright. That's wrong for two reasons: 1. it's proof-texting; 2. it's using the Gospel to justify sin.
Here is the verse in context:
<b>Matthew 10: 5-10</b>
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
10:9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts,
10:10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.
In more details: proof-texting is when you have an opinion and you look for any quote in the Bible (or any book) to support and boost your position. The example here is clear: you have the opinion that church material must be free, or copied freely, because it was given by previous generations freely, so you stumble across the quote "freely you have received, so freely give." This is wrong, because it takes the quote completely out of context and twists its intention. When Christ said the above quote to the apostles when he sent them to preach, he was specifically talking about the Gospel (the good news, who is Jesus Christ). He came freely to offer himself for all of us, so no one could charge you to hear or be a part of this freely offered gift: the Body of Christ. So the quote is not read in its context and is used here merely as a means of proof-texting your own opinion. (Side-note: This has nothing to do with tithes, because tithes are a matter of you freely choosing to offer what you have earned. They're not a means of buying salvation or God's favor).
As you said before, the verse was used to preach the bible, Jesus Christ and His faith. But also before the verse it said:
<i>Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons.</i>
that mean he gave them power to do these things. So it’s not only to preach His name but also to prove it with acts. Now alhan, or anything that is in connection in church is part of the church and is considered part of preaching. You can’t deny that. Actually you would be one of the best persons to know that since you are in fact part of the HCOC. You, as part of the chorus, can’t deny that you’re chanting all of these hymns as part of Jesus’ worship, can you?!!!
Now you said: ‘He came freely to offer himself for all of us.'
Of course He did, that’s one main reason of our belief in Him right now…..but that also includes everything that is in connection with Him. His words; the bible, His power; which He gave to His apostles and to us, and what He gave to His apostles during the 40 days after His Resurrection; which is written down in the apostles writings and is handed down to us through the tradition of our church.
The second reason is that it is a sin to steal and to infringe copyrighted materials. You cannot justify sin through the Bible.
I would love to understand what’s the sin in what I am saying. I would love, for you, to provide us here with a verse or explanation of our fathers that goes against with what I said above and that prove that it’s a sin.
(and i am waiting for that now)
Steeling, maybe, but how. If I learning a hymn from an old and great muallem, and that muallem dies and I went and recorded the hymn and put a copyright on it….isn’t stealing. I didn’t ask the muallem to recorded and copyright it and I also didn’t pay a cent to learn. Than isn’t that stealing.
For a current example. Am sure in HCOC, Albair brings many long and rare hymns to the public. Like the Tomas hymn, long Aven pi-arche ervs, O-oneitak, and many more. Does he really pays money to get them or does he get permission to rerecord them. And wait does the person who gave him the tape or the hymn, does he have permission to give it to others from the original cantor or……..
Look Biboboy, if you want to call it stealing, that’s fine. But than we are stealing.
Another point I want to make is that there is a mistaken assumption that church material, such as hymns, are for free. The truth is, it's not. Previously, cantors used to charge money if you wanted to just listen to a hymn outside the liturgical context. That stopped now, but cantors still get paid for their services in church. So, hymns are not free anyway.
WOW….how are they not. I thought you said Christ gave us Himself for free. Since He gave us Himself, doesn’t that mean everything that is in Him or for Him to?!!! Please tell me if I am mistaken.
Now when you say: "So, hymns are not free anyway." You are fully mistaken. First a hymn, if it’s really a spiritual hymn that benefits spiritually, is not a person’s. If cantors' words are right about hymns being put together in a very carefully manner and are written in a very spiritual way that makes it food for the spirit, than they are not that persons'.
For example, the Psalies that we have for many occasions and saints. HG Bishop Youannes said before that they are put by monks that are living with God all the time. That means it’s not there selves who would put it but their love and faith in God that would help them do write all of these words. That’s just concerning texts. As for tuning the hymns, who gives a person his great and wonderful voice…God. I personally love listening to cantor Ibrahim Ayad. If I asked him about his voice, would he deny that God gave it to him to actually do what he does now. No he would never deny. Because if he does, what ever he chants or records for other to learn would be in vain since it doesn’t refer to God.
So what I am trying to say is, God gave us what we have, it’s not fully ours. He gave it for us to keep it and to bless His name with it as we say in the 3rd Hoos. And since it’s not fully yours as a possession, than it’s not fully yours to copyright it. Also that makes it free.
Joined: Feb 15, 2004 | Posts: 331
), getting the material for researching the right hymns as well as recording the hymns in the studio and publishing them on cd are expensive. Those costs are reflected in the prices of the CDs, and any profits made are used to cover the costs of further productions. In other words, copyrights are necessary to keep anything functioning. No one is benefiting in a monatery sense, but we're all benefiting spiritually - the HCOC members through their service, and everyone in the world through learning the correct renditions of Coptic hymns and listening to them for prayer.
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