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eluzai

posted on Jul 22, 2007 - 09:55 PM

If anyone has watched the documentary "Jesus Camp" one gets the feeling that what these people are partaking in, in this film, is a cult indeed. The babbleing, the "prophecying", the political propaganda, the praying to cardboard cutouts of the president, etc. all give you butterflies in your stomach, me anyways. coming from a protestant background i am schocked at what i see at these churches because its not limited to just this documentary. what is seen in it is pretty much the standard for what goes on in most protestant churches. i began doing more research on the roots of the protestant movement and as you go on through the years and more and more denominations spring up, total of 3,800 now, i started to really understand how dangerous the protestant movement and its liberal ideology really is. does anyone else feel the same way? and please correct me if i am wrong, although im not saying that ALL protestants are bad people, just the ideology.

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eluzai

Joined: Jul 19, 2007 | Posts: 18

Biboboy

posted on Jul 23, 2007 - 04:05 AM

Agape,

The documentary wasn't about Protestants, but about Pentecostals specifically, and Evangelical Fundamentalists generally. Strangely, this documentary was meant to promote Pentecostalism, and it's targetted for adults to see the future of America through these children and youth. As an Orthodox Christian, I think it demoted, rather than promoted, their position. It's scary.

Not all Protestants, actually, are like that - most of them find Fundamentalism as horrific as the Orthodox and the Catholics would find it too.

Also, Fundamentalists do not have a "liberal ideology." They hate liberals in all forms.

_________________
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In Christ,
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GraceM

posted on Jul 23, 2007 - 12:03 PM

Hi eluzai,

Although I have not seen the documentary, I urge you to consider the validity of the source from which you make your generalizations.

I agree with Biboboy that most protestants ".. find Fundamentalism as horrific as the Orthodox and the Catholics would find it too".

Despite being coptic orthodox, my family also attends a protestant church and my uncle and aunt interstate are protestant. So far I have not experienced any of the things you speak of, all I have seen is a genuine love for God and a desire to delve deeper in relationship with him.

There are both positives about the Orthodox church and the Protestant. It is true there is a depth to the orthodox faith I have not experienced anywhere else, but there is also (in my coptic church) alot of concern regarding superficial matters. God examines the heart of each individual, it is not up to us to judge whose method of worship is acceptable and whose is not.I'm not saying we should not be careful regarding false teachings...but that we should not be so biased towards our own traditions to the extent that we fail to see the benefits or blessings of others'.

Peace & Grace

_________________
You will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. (Jeremiah 29:13)

Do not seek the perfection of the law in human virtues, for it is not found perfect in them. Its perfection is hidden in the Cross of Christ.
+St. Mark the Ascetic+

I, the Lord, am your saviour, and your Redeemer.
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Joined: Jul 23, 2007 | Posts: 8

eluzai

posted on Jul 23, 2007 - 07:09 PM

Biboboy,
your correct when you say they hate all things liberal, but compare their "church" to what the apostles founded (orthodoxy) and they are very much liberal, even though they hate liberal ideology, their form of Christianity is very liberal.

GraceM,
when i speak of these things, i speak from my own personal experiences in the protestant church. while it has been a long time since experiencing them this documentary helped jog my memory of the things i seen. im not at liberty to say that all protestants are like this or that, in my personal experience the majority of protestant churches were very similar to this and didnt consider themselves fundamental at all. im not judging anyone, im attacking the protestant ideology (hate this sin not the sinner). this has proven itself dangerous time and time again, protestants universally interpret the bible in the way they see fit, hence the 3,800 protestant denominations and countless cults that have sprang up from this type of ideology, check out "growing in grace ministries". ive made it very clear that im not attacking the people that are protestant, i am attacking their ideology which as i have said has proven to be dangerous time and time again. i dont believe that all protestant churches operate as what was seen in "Jesus Camp" but there is a large number of evangelical protestants who do "speak in tounges" and many other heretical things, and not only that, they also believe in establishing a "perfect and holy" government.

Joined: Jul 19, 2007 | Posts: 18

Matzpah

posted on Feb 10, 2008 - 09:31 PM

I understand that the Jesus Camp has been disbanded. I saw clips from the film, and yes, there were parts that were somewhat scary and even, even for me having experienced some of charismatic Catholicism. Overall though, there are worst things that the kids could be doing.

Joined: Jul 05, 2005 | Posts: 40
Location: Nativity of Our Lord, Virginia

Peter

posted on Feb 11, 2008 - 12:00 AM

I came away with very mixed emotions after seeing it. It is heartening to see child with zeal for the Lord, it is disturbing what is done with that zeal and how they are manipulated.

Despite the actual camp filmed is now defunct there are others like it and the mentality behind still exists.

Unfortunately, many protestant sects (oddly mostly American) have a theology or dogmas, that does not remotely resemble christianity, see some the teaching of JS Spong for example.


(if you want to watch it you can find the movie online or pm me for a link)

Joined: Mar 18, 2003 | Posts: 423
Location: Jersey City, NJ

HonoringGod

posted on Feb 13, 2008 - 07:33 PM

St. Augustine talked about his experience in finding the Christian faith. He was born in Egypt when Christianity was unified, but many cults had plagued the church. At a young age he left the church and joined different cults. He even became a pagan worshiper. Eventually he came back to the faith. He wrote many books about the different cults and why he did not stay in that faith. He would always question the priest of the cult, but was never satisfied with the answers; He always found faults in what they were saying. We encourage people to read about other faiths so that they know how to defend our views. Our church does not consider protestant churches as cults. Any church that believes in the Holy Trinity is considered Christian, with a few exceptions.
Each church is unique. For some our church is too strict, for others its perfect. If you know someone who has blind faith(believing without reading) then they are not Christian. You must know your faith before you can say you are part of that faith. For many people this step is not important, which is why you see these groups increase in popularity and then collapse.
I hope this helps.
Your friend in Christ,
Tim

Joined: Nov 17, 2003 | Posts: 42
Location: Southern Cal

mikokiko

posted on Feb 13, 2008 - 10:14 PM

Correction: St. Augustine was not born in Egypt, he was born in modern day Libya (Pentapolis).
Secondly, he was never baptized into the Church as his father kept his mother from doing so, and there is little known of to what extent he was actually involved in paganism, we know much more about his being a manichean.

Joined: Feb 11, 2003 | Posts: 1001

Peter

posted on Feb 14, 2008 - 06:40 AM

No, the protestant churches do not meet the criteria of being cults, though some of the more extreme charismatic sects come close.


From HonoringGod:Our church does not consider protestant churches as cults. Any church that believes in the Holy Trinity is considered Christian, with a few exceptions.

With the thousands (about 33,000) of protestant sects out there, their theology is just as varied and many could not be considered Christian by the most generous of definitions. Many sects are sabellian in their trinitarian view, some are arian. Christologically again many (I dare say majority) are adoptionists. Easily half of all these protestant denominations are heterdox at best.


So as Tim rightly points out it is very important to know what we truly believe.

_________________
“While the theologians are searching these abstruse
matters, many simple-souls will have slipped into the
Kingdom of God” - H.H. Pope Shenouda III

"If you wish to be a theologian then follow the commandments." - St. Gregory Nanzianus

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