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jshouk

posted on Oct 22, 2007 - 08:12 PM

hey,

I was listening to this sermon and at some point the speaker said 'everything happens for a reason'. So, a few things came to my mind. Mainly, how can i differentiate b/w the fact that God's true desire is that we stay/become as perfect as we can & the fact that God put certain tribulations in our lives so we can grow. ( Considering that our sins can be a tribulation).

So i guess this touches a bit the topic of predestination and God's will ( at least a bit of my confusion does) . So if anyone knows any good sermons i can listen too or any explaination i would appreciate it
John

Joined: Jan 29, 2006 | Posts: 30

akhteet

posted on Oct 23, 2007 - 04:42 AM

actually its true as i was telling bigee kol el eyamal yamal lel khere its in the bible

Joined: Oct 16, 2007 | Posts: 19

jshouk

posted on Oct 23, 2007 - 08:40 PM

But does God want you to sin sometimes. I always understood that we can learn from our mistakes/sins/falls. But does God want us to fall. Can God say...' this man will grow if i let him fall in this sin.'? Because to some extend we do learn from our sins...and thats what gets us closer to him. But again does he WANT or see it best for us to sin sometimes?
Ideas?

John

Joined: Jan 29, 2006 | Posts: 30

mikokiko

posted on Oct 24, 2007 - 01:33 AM

Sin = Separation from God.
God never wants us to be separated from Him. It may be His will that we sin indirectly, just as my parents will that I have my own responsibility to either finish a certain duty which they will not force me to perform. But it is still their will, even if they acknowledge that I might go against it. However God never wills a sin just for its sake so that we can grow by it. We grow through temptation and He does allow temptation. But we do not grow by sinning.

Joined: Feb 11, 2003 | Posts: 1027

Publican

posted on Oct 24, 2007 - 05:27 AM

Agape,

These concepts are prevalent throughout the corpus of St. Athanasius, if you're limited in time you could pick up a secondary source that discusses the Athanasian view of man and Grace [Athanasiana (Chapter 4)--Dragas, Athanasius and Asceticism--Brakke].
St. Gregory of Nyssa also comments (indirectly) on this in his theology of ascent in the Life of Moses.

In general sermons are nice, but going to the fathers will always give you a more complete explanation on any particular topic. Reading the fathers takes time, but if by reading and applying the fathers we are able to reorder our selves and attain the mind or 'phronema' (the righ order of mind/body/will) of the Fathers what could be more valuable?

Publican

_________________
"Fight the battle for your Heart" -- St. Antony the Great

"Sit in the presence of the Lord every moment of your life, as you think of him and recollect him in your heart." -- St. Isaac the Syrian

The greater the Knowledge of God, the greater the Love, and the greater the Love for God the greater the Knowledge, the greater the Love, the greater the Knowledge, the greater the Suffering.-- St. Silouan

Joined: Nov 18, 2005 | Posts: 108

lowlyman

posted on Oct 25, 2007 - 03:54 PM

I will give this a try. God does not want anyone to sin. We fall due to own free will. When our own free will is in harmony with the commandment, we do not fall. However when we break the commandment, then we sin. Hence, God's will is made manifest in the Commandments. Yet, God does not force anyone to do anything

So what happened when you break the commandments. Typically in addition to God's mercy, God's justice must also accomplishes its work. With sin, corruption enters created things: people, universe etc. when things become corrupted they do not function in accordance to their nature. This gives birth to tribulations, sickness, natural disasters, and other trials.This is why the righteous always consider what ever happens to them as just punishment.
And so when you find yourself in trials,persevere and acknowledge that these things are the result of your sins (not Adams or anyone else's). Also remember our Lord saying:" he who perseveres to the end is saved".

Now God permits Satan to tempt you, as a way for you to achieve growth in your spiritual path if you prevail. Hence the methods of the Devils become the very mean of our salvation. Glory be to God in the highest, peace on earth and goodwill toward men

From jshouk:But does God want you sometimes. I always understood that we can learn from our mistakes/sins/falls. But does God want us to fall. Can God say...' this man will grow if i let him fall in this sin.'? Because to some extend we do learn from our sins...and thats what gets us closer to him. But again does he WANT or see it best for us to sin sometimes?
Ideas?

John

Joined: Apr 04, 2006 | Posts: 242