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mikehenry

posted on Nov 10, 2007 - 06:31 PM

Hey guys,

I met someone at church who told me that he studied the Bible in dfferent languages (Arabic, Hebrew, Latin, Greek, and until recently, Coptic). And we started talking about the discrepancies between different Bible translations...

Anyway, he mentioned the example of "the Lord is a man of war" (Exodus 15:3) which we sing during the first Hos, and he told me that instead of "is a man of war," it should read (from the Greek and Hebrew) "is mighty to end wars."

What is everyone's opinion on this? and How do you translate the Coptic?

Mike

Joined: Jan 19, 2006 | Posts: 82
Location: St. Mary and St. Moses Coptic Orthodox Church, Buffalo, NY, USA

mikehenry

posted on Nov 10, 2007 - 07:16 PM

I tried to translate it from the Coptic P=o=c petqomqem `nnibwtc and this is what I came up with:

P=o=c: The Lord
pet-: [who (is)]
qomqem: [to] crush, crushing [break; fragment]
`nnibwtc: wars

And the Arabic transliteration: "Al rab mo'kasr al Heroob" ("The Lord is the one who crushes wars" I think... my Arabic isn't too good).

_________________
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http://www.buffalocopts.org

"When I said, 'My foot is slipping,' Your love, O LORD, supported me. When anxiety was great within me, Your consolation brought joy to my soul."
Psalm 93:18-19

"My eyes are always toward the Lord, for He shall pluck my feet out of the trap."
Psalm 24: 15

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Biboboy

posted on Nov 11, 2007 - 05:05 PM

Agape,

In Hebrew, it says: "YHWH [Lord] iysh [is man] milchamah [of war]," i.e. "the Lord is a warrior."

In Greek, it says: "κυριος [Lord] συντριβων [crushes/destroys] πολεμους [war]," i.e. "the Lord crushes war."

The Hebrew one makes more sense, both in the context of the hymn (the Lord stood up or fought on behalf of Israel and saved them from the Egyptians) and in the historical context (YHWH was the name of a war-god, before he was understood to be the one God).

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Chant hymns with understanding and rhythm;
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Remnkemi

posted on Nov 11, 2007 - 06:49 PM

This is more an issue with translation and Scriptural history. Since our Coptic Bible is taken from the Septugaint, it doesn't matter what the Hebrew bible says. There are many, many discrepancies in the Hebrew bible compared to the Orthodox bibles, whether Greek, Coptic, Syriac, Ethiopic, etc. In this sense, Orthodox bibles view the supremecy of the Septugaint over the Hebrew Bible. The English bibles, however, took an opposite stand. They view the Hebrew Bible as more authentic than the Septugaint. We can't turn around and compare the English NKJV translation of Exodus 15:3, against the Coptic or Greek or any other language. It's comparing apples and oranges.

I would like to comment on the context of Exodus 15. I always viewed the Egyptians fighting (or going to war) against the Jews. Even after Exodus, the Jews built an army under Joshua and it grew stronger up to the time of David. It was always man who fought the wars. I always saw God as a third party. God only gave (or took away) victory to the Jews who were doing the fighting. In this sense, God is not really fighting. He is really destroying the fight by granting victory or granting defeat to the Jews.

Either interpretation can be correct. It really depends if you see God as the weapon of the Jewish army or as the independent overseer who decides the fate of a war. Regardless, since logic and context will not answer the question, I would follow the original text. And as I said before, to us the Greek and Coptic text is more important.

George

Joined: Apr 07, 2003 | Posts: 669
Location: Boston, MA USA

Peter

posted on Nov 14, 2007 - 06:13 AM

Perhaps it is simply referring to what Moses said in Exodus 14:14 "The Lord will fight for you, and you shall hold your peace." That they are to trust in the Lord for victory come through Him.

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Location: Jersey City, NJ

tonyhabibi

posted on Nov 15, 2007 - 07:21 PM

The lord is a man of war "

can this verse be a prophecy or something to say that god can take form of man .

The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war (ish milhamah): he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies." Isaiah 42:13 KJV

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PaulS

posted on Nov 15, 2007 - 08:45 PM

Hello,

We can read Matthew 10:35 along with this verse. In it, our Lord Jesus Christ, Glory to Him, says that He did not come to bring peace, but rather, a sword. It then describes how children will rise up against their parents, brother against his sister, and so forth.

The concept is the same. But why would our Lord say this?

According to a recent sermon I heard by His Grace the Late Bishop Gregorius, the answer lies in our faith. Our Lord knew that those of us who embraced the true faith would be unpopular with those who rejected Him. The idea is that our job in this world is to hold on to the true faith, not waffle back and forth in order to please others. This is the conflict our Lord spoke of.

So, if you have friends outside of the church who constantly disagree with you about your faith, your mission is not to keep the friendship at the expense of your faith, but rather, end the friendship. Of course, we hope that everyone in this modern day will be tolerant and that no one has to make that kind of decision, but if you are ever presented with the choice of keeping the peace with others or preserving your faith, the answer is clear.

These are not my own words, but rather, a summary of what Bishop Gregorius said. I hope that benefits someone.

GBU,
ps

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