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posted on Mar 17, 2008 - 05:06 PM
I meant a catholic like classification of sins. More importantly, I would prefer hearing more of God's mercy on this topic as was afforded to the thief, as opposed to saying that if you commit this, then you go there etc.. also, i am glad to know that there are simply two types in the Coptic church
posted on Mar 17, 2008 - 05:32 PM
I think we can tie this into the Suicide thread (I don't know if you followed it or not). The Church doesn't pray for those that commit suicide while in control of their actions (i.e. not mentally ill) because if they're not mentally ill, then they intentionally and knowingly commit suicide, and that is something you can't repent from (if you succeed in the attempt). So, suicide basically takes us out of the realm of the thief who actually had a chance to repent.
Basically, for everything else, the Church will pray for us, even if we were to commit suicide, but our death is "delayed," the Church will pray for us because we had a chance to repent. This is similar to the thief.
(In my discussion with Tony (AMoussa) we ended at the question - how can the Church really tell if someone was in control of their actions or not, it's unverifiable information).
So, when the Church prays for us, it's for two things:
1) For our unintentional/out of ignorance sins to be forgiven.
2) A final absolution for any sins we may not have had a chance to confess.
Infact, this is why I'm strong in my opposition to the other interpretation of what St. John was saying, it would greatly undermine God's mercy, because no one dies with an absolutely clean slate.
So, the Church even prays for those who have committed "sins leading to death" but have had a chance to repent (although maybe not a chance to confess). At least this is my interpretation of "2)" above, which is what His Holiness said. I.e. he said the Church prays for those as a kind of final absolution, I'm making the logical conclusion that since we can only confess those sins which we know we committed, and since those sins are "deadly," then H.H. is talking about "deadly sins" which we committed but have not confessed for.
posted on Mar 17, 2008 - 06:21 PM
>>>So, the Church even prays for those who have committed "sins leading to death" but have had a chance to repent (although maybe not a chance to confess).
I agree then that repentance is the key. the thief also repented before he received paradise. so if you repent for your former ways even the last second before you die you can still be saved.
From Truth.Seeker:I think we can tie this into the Suicide thread (I don't know if you followed it or not). The Church doesn't pray for those that commit suicide while in control of their actions (i.e. not mentally ill) because if they're not mentally ill, then they intentionally and knowingly commit suicide, and that is something you can't repent from (if you succeed in the attempt). So, suicide basically takes us out of the realm of the thief who actually had a chance to repent.
Basically, for everything else, the Church will pray for us, even if we were to commit suicide, but our death is "delayed," the Church will pray for us because we had a chance to repent. This is similar to the thief.
(In my discussion with Tony (AMoussa) we ended at the question - how can the Church really tell if someone was in control of their actions or not, it's unverifiable information).
So, when the Church prays for us, it's for two things:
1) For our unintentional/out of ignorance sins to be forgiven.
2) A final absolution for any sins we may not have had a chance to confess.
Infact, this is why I'm strong in my opposition to the other interpretation of what St. John was saying, it would greatly undermine God's mercy, because no one dies with an absolutely clean slate.
So, the Church even prays for those who have committed "sins leading to death" but have had a chance to repent (although maybe not a chance to confess). At least this is my interpretation of "2)" above, which is what His Holiness said. I.e. he said the Church prays for those as a kind of final absolution, I'm making the logical conclusion that since we can only confess those sins which we know we committed, and since those sins are "deadly," then H.H. is talking about "deadly sins" which we committed but have not confessed for.
posted on Mar 21, 2008 - 07:47 PM
What if someone died but they did not have a chance to confess and take communion for a longtime? For example, someone is in the millitery and went to Iraq. There are no Coptic churches in Iraq and no chance for this person in question to confees and take communion. While they were on duty there, they died because you know how war is. What is going to happen to the person?
posted on Mar 21, 2008 - 08:27 PM
We don't know. Depends on the sins the person committed and if he repented or not. Like I said before, "So, the Church even prays for those who have committed "sins leading to death" but have had a chance to repent (although maybe not a chance to confess)."
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