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egyptianhomeboy

posted on Mar 21, 2008 - 11:42 PM

Hello,

In Ibrahim Ayad's recordings for the Weekday Gospel response changes from Matins to the Liturgy slightly. The difference found is the pronunciation of the word "es areh"; in one he says "es areh" and in the other he says "ese areh". Were these intentional or mistakes?

Thanks.

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Michael Fam

Saint Marina Coptic Orthodox Church

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David_the_King

posted on Mar 22, 2008 - 09:49 PM

Mistakes

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David_the_King
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Remnkemi

posted on Mar 23, 2008 - 03:17 AM

I don't think they are mistakes. I think different manuscripts had one word or the other and it never really standardized.

`careh is the 3rd person female singular simple present tense, meaning "she guards" or "she keeps" or "it guards" or "it keeps". The verse is talking about the peace of God. Peace, in Coptic, is a feminine word. So the proper translation of the verse is "The peace of God, that is above all mind, [it] guards/keeps your (plural) heart in Christ Jesus our Lord.:It is a single action happening right now in the present time.

The other word, ece`arehp is the 3rd person single female 2nd future tense. It is also called the 3rd person single female definitive tense. It is technically a present tense verb but it's mood includes future time. This tense emphasizes a definitive present/future tense. It happens now and will definitively happen in the future. So ece`arehp means "it/she (definitely) guards/keeps" You can see how it is technically present tense but it give the mood of future time. So our verse is tranlsated "The peace of God, that is above all mind, keeps your heart in Christ Jesus our Lord." The translation is exactly the same in English and Arabic. But in Coptic there is a difference. I personally think ece`areh with the definitive/2nd future tense is the intended tense and mood, but the single present can also work here.

You can see how a copyist can confuse `careh with ece`arehp. So I think different copyist copied the text with different words.

Neither one is a mistake.
George

Joined: Apr 07, 2003 | Posts: 662
Location: Boston, MA USA

David_the_King

posted on Mar 23, 2008 - 03:45 AM

Right, but as you stated, you personally think ese areh is the intended mood. But my question is, why would they change? Why during the liturgy it is ese areh and during matins it is esareh? What theological basis is this? I always thought it was supposed to be the same, since the translation never changes in any of the languages, and no books produce one for matins and one for liturgy. Books have it as one universal translation.

ps im not saying they are grammatically wrong, more that it was intended to be just one translation with no differences.

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Remnkemi

posted on Mar 23, 2008 - 03:55 AM

No theological reason for the change. I guess they didn't want to delete one. Or it could be a mistake that they are different but not linguistically wrong.
George

Joined: Apr 07, 2003 | Posts: 662
Location: Boston, MA USA