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Noosa_1978

posted on Apr 01, 2008 - 08:26 PM

My friend has decided to be a gestational surrogate for her husband's sister and her husband. Her husband's sister has MRKH and was born without a uterus, but she has ovaries. The baby is going to be genitically the couple's. The doctor is going to put the woman's egg mixed with the woman's husband's into my friend's uterus to carry till the baby is born. How does the church feel about this arrangement? My friend feels that she is doing it to help a family member and her husband is supportive about it.

edited for anonymity

Joined: Dec 14, 2006 | Posts: 213
Location: Jersey City, NJ

the_youngest

posted on Apr 02, 2008 - 12:51 AM

i am not sure about the church's teaching is about this but i think that she and the couple should talk to abouna about this before they do anything. abouna will give them the right advice and if abouna is not sure about it he will ask a bishop or another priest who has done some research about this topic

however i am curious to know since she is only helping the couple

Joined: Mar 14, 2008 | Posts: 12

Biboboy

posted on Apr 03, 2008 - 02:41 AM

Agape,

It depends: if she's getting paid, then she's using her body as a means to gain profit (and that's illegal in most countries). If she's not getting paid, then it's considered like doing charity (something like donating blood). The only issue is what happens later: the psychological ties between a surrogate mother and a surrogate child might lead to problems later between the parents and the surrogate mother, or between the surrogate child as he/she grows up with the biological parents.

_________________
"Our hearts are restless until they find rest in You, Lord" (St. Augustine, Confessions, I, 1).

"Pray gently and calmly,
Chant hymns with understanding and rhythm;
Then you will soar like a young eagle
High in the heavens"
+ St. Evagrius the Solitary, On Prayer, 82.

In Christ,
Bishoy
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Truth.Seeker

posted on Apr 03, 2008 - 03:34 AM

All of us use our body to gain profits, and that's not illegal in any country. You're using your body in any job. Regarding surrogacy, it depends on the law of the state you're in, because that could be viewed as "selling a baby." She's doing it for her sister-in-law, I doubt she's getting paid.

Joined: Feb 25, 2008 | Posts: 320

Biboboy

posted on Apr 03, 2008 - 04:08 AM

Read my post again. I said "as a means to gain profit," not just "to gain profit." Huge difference between the two.

_________________
"Our hearts are restless until they find rest in You, Lord" (St. Augustine, Confessions, I, 1).

"Pray gently and calmly,
Chant hymns with understanding and rhythm;
Then you will soar like a young eagle
High in the heavens"
+ St. Evagrius the Solitary, On Prayer, 82.

In Christ,
Bishoy
HCOC Member


+ To Protect and Preserve +

HCOC: Sing it! Live it! Love it!

Questions or comments on the copticheritage.org website? E-mail me!

Joined: Sep 28, 2004 | Posts: 720

Truth.Seeker

posted on Apr 03, 2008 - 01:25 PM

There's no difference between the two. Adding "as a means" doesn't do anything for what we're talking about. Example:

A) I play soccer to have fun.
B) I play soccer as a means of having fun.

"As a means" just means "as a way," it doesn't go to anything "inherent." Since using our body is the only mean we can use to make profit, I pointed out that all of us use it.

If I'm missing something, explain it to me.

Joined: Feb 25, 2008 | Posts: 320

Noosa_1978

posted on Apr 03, 2008 - 02:27 PM

She is not getting paid to do this for her sister-in-law. She is doing this because she considers her sister-in-law as her sister and wants to help her. She feels as if she is helping a member in her family.

Joined: Dec 14, 2006 | Posts: 213
Location: Jersey City, NJ

AMoussa01

posted on Apr 03, 2008 - 04:20 PM

From Truth.Seeker:There's no difference between the two. Adding "as a means" doesn't do anything for what we're talking about. Example:

A) I play soccer to have fun.
B) I play soccer as a means of having fun.

"As a means" just means "as a way," it doesn't go to anything "inherent." Since using our body is the only mean we can use to make profit, I pointed out that all of us use it.

If I'm missing something, explain it to me.

I'm sorry but i felt the need to speak up. There is a huge difference between the two. I will give you an example: A person who follows God's commandments solely based on the fact that they will recieve rewards or "as a means to recieve awards" and a person who follows God's commandments because he loves God and knows God is just. One is doing it as a means to get a reward and the other gains the reward, yet does not seek it as a means to follow God's commandments. Basically, when you say "as a means," you are stating the primary reason. I hope this explained things.

GB
Tony

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Truth.Seeker

posted on Apr 03, 2008 - 04:55 PM

Tony, Biboboy,

You two would have a point if the statement is, "I use my body SOLELY as a means of making profit." That means I use it for nothing else, and it would mean my "primary reason" for using my body is for making profit.

I play soccer as a means of having fun.
I play soccer as a means of exercising.
I play soccer as a means of sweating.
I play soccer as a means of dehydrating.
I play basketball as another means of having fun.
I play basketball as another means of exercising.
I play basketball as another means of sweating.
I play basketball as another means of dehydrating.

NONE of the above statements are mutually exclusive.

Tony, to use your example, I can easily say, "I obey God as a means of showing Him my love AND getting rewarded." The fact that I say a statement that excludes "showing Him my love" has nothing to do with my primary reason for obeying Him.

"One is doing it as a means to get a reward and the other gains the reward, yet does not seek it as a means to follow God's commandments."

I think you confused yourself. The "means" is following God's commandments, not the reward.

Joined: Feb 25, 2008 | Posts: 320

AMoussa01

posted on Apr 03, 2008 - 05:13 PM

Truth.Seeker,

If one was to follow The Commandments just because he or she is seeking a heavenly reward, than that is wrong and insincere, correct? The same goes to this situation; if this woman was doing this favor for her friend just to make a profit, than it would be inappropriate. What me and Bibo were saying was that, to do this favor, than this person had to do it out of love and not seeking profits. She can however accept the profits, yet at the same time, not be doing it "as a means" to recieve profits. Does that make sense? That is why there is a difference when you say "I am doing this as a means to..." and " I got a profit from doing this."

GB
Tony

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Tony Moza,
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Truth.Seeker

posted on Apr 03, 2008 - 05:25 PM

The point is if someone says, "I follow the commandments as a means to get into Heaven," doesn't mean that's the only reason that person follows the commandments. This is a matter of language.

I'm not disagreeing with your conclusions, I'm correcting a misstatement by Bibo. In other words, he didn't say what he meant. And you are arguing with me because you think I disagree with what he meant.

My original point is that you and I can both say, "I am using my body as a means of making money." (Because any job we have will require using our bodies). That statement doesn't mean that this is our exclusive use of our body.

This has nothing do with Coptic Theology, so this is my last comment on this language issue.

Joined: Feb 25, 2008 | Posts: 320