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Epideacon

posted on Apr 20, 2008 - 08:31 PM

Hey everyone,
Something funny happened today in Palm Sunday liturgy at church and I wanted to share it with you. Abouna said the the Pope along with the Holy Synod agreed that the general funeral prayer that comes after the liturgy is to be prayed in the annual tone, not Pascha. Can anyone confirm this and please give reference? I know for sure that the funeral prayer is ALWAYS prayed in the pascha tune so this new rite is obviously very recent and I would like to know more details as to where it came from and why.

Joined: Apr 26, 2006 | Posts: 96

David_the_King

posted on Apr 20, 2008 - 09:57 PM

If this was the case, it would be more widely known. Our church prays is in regular funeral tone.

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Epideacon

posted on Apr 20, 2008 - 10:37 PM

Actually, I was just browsing around and I found on Tasbeha.org's front page a sermon by HH Pope Shenouda himself taling about the preparation for Holy Week, etc. and one of the things he said was that Palm Sunday is a feast and as such there should be no mournful tunes heard during the liturgy. But he didn't specifically say that the funeral prayer should not be in pascha tune. Knowing that Abouna of my church, I am almost sure he saw that sermon and ran with the idea. Can everyone go to tasbeha.org and listen to it and come back with feedback? It's a really good sermon.

Joined: Apr 26, 2006 | Posts: 96

abahoor

posted on Apr 21, 2008 - 12:04 AM

yes. this is true. the Holy Synod agreed on that and all the bishops have told their priests to do so. (or atleast my diocese bishop). the video expalins all i guess.

Joined: Feb 15, 2004 | Posts: 345

Andrew

posted on Apr 21, 2008 - 07:28 AM

Actually this has NEVER been agreed upon by the Holy Synod and is merely the 'opinion' of His Holiness and a select few bishops. That is not to say I don't respect their opinion beause I do but let us not confuse opinion with church ritual.

I know that St Marks Cathederal (the old one in azbakia) finish the liturgy and then leave the church returning at 5pm to pray the funeral. This is something that we hope to do in our church from next year as then you have completly separated the feast of our lords entry from any 'sad tunes' or rituals.

In my opinion if you are to pray the general funeral straight after the liturgy without continuing the 9th and 11th hours of Psalm Sunday prayer then the funeral should be prayed in the festive tune. My reason for this is because you are still in the day of the feast and there is no logical reason to change to the 'sad tune'. Also I know for fact that a church in egypt a few years ago had a funeral straight after the general funeral (obviously the person was already dead so couldn't attend the general funeral) and the church prayed the service in the joyous tune. The argument as I previously said was that they were still in the day of the feast and had not yet entered into the Holy Week.

To say we shouldn't pray in the sad tune is fine with me but then to say we should pray in the annual tune on a MAJOR LORD'S FEAST is just illogical. While on the matter the same is of Maundy Thursday. I agree that there should be psalm 150 and perhaps madiah chanted during the distribution but do not tell me on a Lord's feast (even though its small) we should chant psalm 150 in the ANNUAL (again an 'opinion' of His Holiness and some bishops) tune and then the hymn Pioik - which incidentally from the second verse focuses more on the virgin St. Mary and not only our Lord Christ. I just think its too easy if everytime we don't agree with hte existing ritual to say ok then pray it annually it just shows a lack of thought and logic.

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Epideacon

posted on Apr 21, 2008 - 11:39 AM

Well, I certainly think that in Palm Sunday's case, the liturgy should finish at like 12 - 1 pm. And the funeral and pascha prayers should begin at around 3-4. The problem with that is that here in America, if you tell the people that there's a 3 hour break in between, they're all going to leave and not come back because a lot of people travel a long distance to get to church in the first place. So that's why all the churches pray the general funeral RIGHT after the liturgy, followed by the pascha like a half-hour to an hour later. The question then becomes, do you pray with the tune according to the time of prayer, or to the season or event associated with the prayer? if you pray a funeral prayer, it's a funeral, naturally a sad time, and should be prayed with sad tunes; on the other hand you are praying it on a feast day, which is clearly festal tunes. Which condition takes precedence?

Joined: Apr 26, 2006 | Posts: 96