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CopticCrusader

posted on Apr 24, 2008 - 01:40 AM

Hello,

There is a muslim kid (Palestinian, was born a Catholic, converted) in one of my classes (high school). And every day he tries to annoy me and speak arabic to me and i just dont feel comfortable speaking arabic with him. He also curses me, my family, and Christians in general (although the rest of his family are Christians) almost on a daily basis. I keep quiet and try to ignore him. I have tried to debate him at times regarding faith but it never goes anywhere (as you probably already know). And this kid is just a bad kid overall, he has done things that i cant say on this forum. He is a holocaust denier and he believes 9/11 was an inside job, hates Israel, etc...
I know that Jesus told us to love everybody, so i would like to try to convert him, or at least convince him that islam is wrong. Can anyone help me?

Joined: Apr 23, 2008 | Posts: 14

tonyhabibi

posted on Apr 24, 2008 - 02:06 AM

look some of the things this guy says is not so far fetched , israel is not innocent , and there are some fishy things that went on in 9/11 ,
concerning islam there are so many ways u can refute islam easily .. heres an example , Ask the kid if he beleives god is a deciever ? .... he will obviously say no ....
then ask him why in his quran they say that God decieved the Jews and the romans by making them think they crucified jesus , but according to islam Allah made someone to appear like jesus on the cross . why would god want to decieve the people into thinking they killed jesus . why is god scared or shy or powerless as to not control a situation ?

They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157

"We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

Joined: Apr 09, 2004 | Posts: 1220
Location: IN THE back of your mind .navagating through your heart , resting in your soul .

Truth.Seeker

posted on Apr 24, 2008 - 02:39 AM

Suggesting the US government had anything to do with 9/11 is ridiculous and outrageous.

CopticCrusader,

Matthew 7:6 - “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces." Once you're dealing with dogs or swine, your duty to convince ends.

Joined: Feb 25, 2008 | Posts: 411

Overgrownegyptian

posted on Apr 24, 2008 - 05:59 AM

Philippians 1:27 Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ…

We are all called the 5th Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are told to live our lives as a testimony to His Word. Abouna Bishoy Kamel was a living Gospel. Everyday he would walk home and this little kid, who was muslim, would throw orange peels from his balcony on to Abouna as he passed by. This happened for quite a long time. Then one day Abouna Bishoy noticed the orange peels weren't being thrown at him, so he went to the little kids house to see what happened. He saw the little kid was sick so he went out and bought the little kid a huge basket of oranges and at that moment the kid and the parents repented and asked for Abouna's forgiveness. He lived his life taking joy in every insult. Another time Abouna Bishoy Kamel came home and muslim people would always spit on him. Tasoni was really upset and asked him why he wasn't upset. He responded, "Why should I be upset in this joy? I see this spit as the spit of Christ when the Jews spit on him." He took everything as a joy.

So this person might be insulting you but take it as a joy for the Jews insulted the LORD Himself. I know it's a very hard thing to do but try your hardest to fight the feeling of saying something back because that's what the devil is really trying to get to you.

Another thing is this: look at the positives of this situation. I am actually jealous, believe it or not, because you have an amazing virtue knocking at the door. The virtue is patience. If you endure with this person, whether they convert or not, and you endure through all the insults you will begin to feel the virtue of patience working in your life.

Do not look at the negatives and be upset if he insults you, but look at the positives that come from this situation.

May God bless you, please pray for me and my weaknesses.

_________________
andrew

May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing to you, pleasing to you.

"O God, my God, I will rise up early unto You; for my soul has thirsted for You: to make my flesh blossom for You, in a barren land and a trackless and dry place." (Psalm 62:1)

"My son, give me your heart, And let your eyes observe my ways." (Proverbs 23:26)

"Every meeting with Christ is a prayer of renewal. Every prayer is an experience of faith. Every experience of faith is eternal life." Abouna Matta El-Meskeen

Administrator of copticamerica.org. Ask me for help!

Joined: Sep 23, 2003 | Posts: 245
Location: St. Mary and St. George COC [tallahassee, fl] l St. George COC [tampa, fl]

lowlyman

posted on Apr 24, 2008 - 03:53 PM

Overgrownegyptian

This story lifted up my spirit. Glory be to God in all things.

Truthseeker,

Good answer.

lowly
From Overgrownegyptian:Philippians 1:27 Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ…

We are all called the 5th Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are told to live our lives as a testimony to His Word. Abouna Bishoy Kamel was a living Gospel. Everyday he would walk home and this little kid, who was muslim, would throw orange peels from his balcony on to Abouna as he passed by. This happened for quite a long time. Then one day Abouna Bishoy noticed the orange peels weren't being thrown at him, so he went to the little kids house to see what happened. He saw the little kid was sick so he went out and bought the little kid a huge basket of oranges and at that moment the kid and the parents repented and asked for Abouna's forgiveness. He lived his life taking joy in every insult. Another time Abouna Bishoy Kamel came home and muslim people would always spit on him. Tasoni was really upset and asked him why he wasn't upset. He responded, "Why should I be upset in this joy? I see this spit as the spit of Christ when the Jews spit on him." He took everything as a joy.

So this person might be insulting you but take it as a joy for the Jews insulted the LORD Himself. I know it's a very hard thing to do but try your hardest to fight the feeling of saying something back because that's what the devil is really trying to get to you.

Another thing is this: look at the positives of this situation. I am actually jealous, believe it or not, because you have an amazing virtue knocking at the door. The virtue is patience. If you endure with this person, whether they convert or not, and you endure through all the insults you will begin to feel the virtue of patience working in your life.

Do not look at the negatives and be upset if he insults you, but look at the positives that come from this situation.

May God bless you, please pray for me and my weaknesses.

Joined: Apr 04, 2006 | Posts: 226

CopticCrusader

posted on Apr 24, 2008 - 07:51 PM

From tonyhabibi:
concerning islam there are so many ways u can refute islam easily .. heres an example , Ask the kid if he beleives god is a deciever ? .... he will obviously say no ....
then ask him why in his quran they say that God decieved the Jews and the romans by making them think they crucified jesus , but according to islam Allah made someone to appear like jesus on the cross . why would god want to decieve the people into thinking they killed jesus . why is god scared or shy or powerless as to not control a situation ?

They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157

"We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

what if he just says that God only deceives the "infidels"?

thank you all for your comments and May God Bless all of you!!

Joined: Apr 23, 2008 | Posts: 14

Overgrownegyptian

posted on Apr 24, 2008 - 08:15 PM

From CopticCrusader:
what if he just says that God only deceives the "infidels"?


You do not always have to argue with him. If he says you are deceived and Jesus Christ is a prophet and not God, then explain it to him once. If after that he keeps bothering you about it just say ok and keep silent. There is power in silence, look at the LORD Jesus Christ. He kept silent even amongst the false accusations.

You are living the life of our LORD Jesus Christ right now. When he insults you and says nasty things against you, take it joyfully. Explain his faults but in a loving way so as to God willing bring him to the faith again. If he does not wish to turn then that is his choice and he will deal with it on judgment day.

Pray for him for the LORD told us:

But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you

-Matthew 5:43-44

_________________
andrew

May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing to you, pleasing to you.

"O God, my God, I will rise up early unto You; for my soul has thirsted for You: to make my flesh blossom for You, in a barren land and a trackless and dry place." (Psalm 62:1)

"My son, give me your heart, And let your eyes observe my ways." (Proverbs 23:26)

"Every meeting with Christ is a prayer of renewal. Every prayer is an experience of faith. Every experience of faith is eternal life." Abouna Matta El-Meskeen

Administrator of copticamerica.org. Ask me for help!

Joined: Sep 23, 2003 | Posts: 245
Location: St. Mary and St. George COC [tallahassee, fl] l St. George COC [tampa, fl]

CopticCrusader

posted on Apr 24, 2008 - 08:21 PM

overgrownegyptian,

It just seems kind of difficult to tell him what he is doing wrong with out it turning into an argument.

And I have prayed for him a few times actually. I have prayed that God have mercy on him because I am sure that he has no idea what he is doing.

Pray for me!

_________________
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!

Joined: Apr 23, 2008 | Posts: 14

ophadeece

posted on Apr 24, 2008 - 08:51 PM

Dear CopticCrusader,
I think you are doing very well by praying for him. Pray more, and not just few times, and pray for yourself as well that God give you peace and wisdom to deal with this situation in silence perfectly. I do agree strongly with the silence opinion of overgrownegyptian, and the wise advice given by Truth.Seeker. I don't think he will listen even if you try your hardest to convince him - not worth trying as far as my opinion is concerned. Keep praying please for both you and him. God bless you and direct you to what wisest and best... pray for us a lot

Joined: Oct 01, 2007 | Posts: 109
Location: Wolverhampton, UK

CopticCrusader

posted on Apr 24, 2008 - 09:06 PM

Thanks a lot ophadeece, may the blessings of the Holy Pascha Week be with you! Pray for me and for him (muslim kid)!

_________________
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!

Joined: Apr 23, 2008 | Posts: 14

Noosa_1978

posted on Apr 28, 2008 - 02:44 AM

First of all, Happy Easter to all of you. I hope you all enjoyed the Church and then breaking the fast. I know I love this time of the year. Anyhow, that muslim kid needs alot of prayer because he is very confused. Also be nice to him and act Christian around him because then he will see that he made a huge mistake in his life. My mom, even though she was raised is a very strict Catholic home, became an agnostic while in college. She did it because she wanted to be liberated and a feminist. It is very hard to deal with her because she is stubborn and feels her way is right. It has gotten very hard at times to follow my faith. My mother has even called me a religious fanatic, who believes in bogus. Let me tell you, when I started going to the Coptic Church, 3 years ago and started studying about the faith, my mother was giving me a hard time. She even threatened to throw me out and disinherit me if I got baptized. She was pushing me to be like her. She even made me sleep on the street because I did not want to sign a petition that supported abortions. Anyhow, I told myself that my eternal life was more important than my inheritance and got baptized without my mom knowing. I feel so happy I did it. I do not even tell her I go to church because if she knew, she would not let me. She has even thrown away my pictures of saints in my room. However, I keep praying that one day she makes the right choice. I hope this young also makes the right choice too someday.

Joined: Dec 14, 2006 | Posts: 226
Location: Jersey City, NJ

Noosa_1978

posted on Apr 28, 2008 - 02:44 AM

First of all, Happy Easter to all of you. I hope you all enjoyed the Church and then breaking the fast. I know I love this time of the year. Anyhow, that muslim kid needs alot of prayer because he is very confused. Also be nice to him and act Christian around him because then he will see that he made a huge mistake in his life. My mom, even though she was raised is a very strict Catholic home, became an agnostic while in college. She did it because she wanted to be liberated and a feminist. It is very hard to deal with her because she is stubborn and feels her way is right. It has gotten very hard at times to follow my faith. My mother has even called me a religious fanatic, who believes in bogus. Let me tell you, when I started going to the Coptic Church, 3 years ago and started studying about the faith, my mother was giving me a hard time. She even threatened to throw me out and disinherit me if I got baptized. She was pushing me to be like her. She even made me sleep on the street because I did not want to sign a petition that supported abortions. Anyhow, I told myself that my eternal life was more important than my inheritance and got baptized without my mom knowing. I feel so happy I did it. I do not even tell her I go to church because if she knew, she would not let me. She has even thrown away my pictures of saints in my room. However, I keep praying that one day she makes the right choice. I hope this young also makes the right choice too someday.

Joined: Dec 14, 2006 | Posts: 226
Location: Jersey City, NJ

garywbush

posted on Jun 01, 2008 - 06:39 AM

Assalam alaikum CopticCrusader.

You say he is a Palestinian-born Catholic who converted to Islam. What type of Islam? Shia (Jaafari) or Sunni (Hanafi)?

Joined: Aug 30, 2006 | Posts: 53

AnthonyXM

posted on Jun 01, 2008 - 07:04 AM

Truthseeker is right CopticCrusader.
Answer his curses with a blessing - then think of him no more.
Do not wrestle with this person any longer. Let him pass from your mind.

God bless you

Joined: May 26, 2008 | Posts: 25

meeno

posted on Jun 02, 2008 - 03:38 AM

From CopticCrusader:Hello,

There is a muslim kid (Palestinian, was born a Catholic, converted) in one of my classes (high school). And every day he tries to annoy me and speak arabic to me and i just dont feel comfortable speaking arabic with him. He also curses me, my family, and Christians in general (although the rest of his family are Christians) almost on a daily basis. I keep quiet and try to ignore him. I have tried to debate him at times regarding faith but it never goes anywhere (as you probably already know). And this kid is just a bad kid overall, he has done things that i cant say on this forum. He is a holocaust denier and he believes 9/11 was an inside job, hates Israel, etc...
I know that Jesus told us to love everybody, so i would like to try to convert him, or at least convince him that islam is wrong. Can anyone help me?

Islam is a religion started by a man who needed a way to gather an army and rule the world. Because it was a man-made religion, there are numerous flaws, and you'll notice most of their rules are made to suit Muhammed.

Anyway, if you want to make him think, ask him this question: the Quran teaches that the Bible/Torah is correct and not to dispute it. (Quran 5:68, 29:46). However, this cannot be, since the Quran contradicts the Jewish/Christian sources. Muslims get around this by saying that the Christians and Jews corrupted their books. This is impossible, as you'll see below.

We know from the Dead Sea Scrolls that the Torah (first five books of the Bible) we have today is the Torah we had at least 200 years BC. Thus, the Torah that was circulating around the time of Muhammed (about 800 years later) MUST have been the same, unaltered one. One can apply the same logic to the rest of the Bible as well - the Gospel that was going around in the 7th century is without any doubt the same one we have today. Thus, from a historical perspective, no alteration of the texts occurred. How can this be, since the Quran is the word of God?

_________________
God Bless,

Mina

Joined: Mar 26, 2005 | Posts: 40
Location: Princeton, NJ

CopticCrusader

posted on Jun 05, 2008 - 01:20 AM

From garywbush:Assalam alaikum CopticCrusader.

You say he is a Palestinian-born Catholic who converted to Islam. What type of Islam? Shia (Jaafari) or Sunni (Hanafi)?

he told me he was a sunni and he doesnt consider any other sect to be true muslims

_________________
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!

Joined: Apr 23, 2008 | Posts: 14

CopticPeachUK

posted on Jul 02, 2008 - 06:02 AM

Ask this muslim kid that after being muslim, did it make him better or worse? as a human being??

if it made him better - great! Where is the proof of that?? It seems that he has really gone downhill.
If it made him worse - then surely his relationship with God should edify him? If its not edifying him, then its not beneficial. Its time wasting.

Joined: May 16, 2008 | Posts: 5

Noosa_1978

posted on Jul 03, 2008 - 05:11 PM

From CopticCrusader:There is a muslim kid (Palestinian, was born a Catholic, converted) in one of my classes (high school). And every day he tries to annoy me and speak arabic to me and i just dont feel comfortable speaking arabic with him. He also curses me, my family, and Christians in general (although the rest of his family are Christians) almost on a daily basis. I keep quiet and try to ignore him. I have tried to debate him at times regarding faith but it never goes anywhere (as you probably already know). And this kid is just a bad kid overall, he has done things that i cant say on this forum. He is a holocaust denier and he believes 9/11 was an inside job, hates Israel, etc...
I know that Jesus told us to love everybody, so i would like to try to convert him, or at least convince him that islam is wrong. Can anyone help me?

Jesus is the only person who can change others. Just be patient with this young man and keep pray. One of these days he will relize he made a huge mistake. God works in very in ways that none of us can analyze. Just leave it to God and he will come through.

Joined: Dec 14, 2006 | Posts: 226
Location: Jersey City, NJ

epchois_nai_nan

posted on Jul 04, 2008 - 08:03 AM

Hey CopticCrusader!

I think you are very right to be praying for this guy. From your description, it sounds like he's got a lot of problems of his own. If the rest of his family is Christian and he's converted to Islam, his home life was probably never too great, and it can't be much better now that he's deserted his parents religion. It sounds like he's just venting all his anger and insecurity onto someone who the Koran teaches as inferior.

That said, I really don't think theological/religious conversations are going to get far with him...but thats just my opinion.

God be with you! I'll remember you and him in my prayers

Peace

Joined: Jun 09, 2008 | Posts: 5

mwiskandr

posted on Jul 05, 2008 - 04:19 PM

It is fair to say that the things he's done in his life aren't relevant, and its safe to say that its hard to talk about religion with almost anyone...even other Copts! Politics and religion are two very touchy topics that everyone, especially in the U.S., has a problem talking about, its a skill to be able to hold that sort of discussion. If he is a true Muslim, then he comes from a fanatic cult, and not a religion, so keep that in mind. He comes from a religion that preaches hate, and not peace...violence first..just consider the fact that secular history records that Islam was initially spread by the sword, and is even until this day...so keep that in mind when speaking to him. Rather than showing him that Islam is not a religion but a violent cult, and one that does absolutely nothing for society (which is quite easy to prove)...show him how Christianity has a lot to offer...and show him that while Muslims stress the wrath and judgment of God, Christians emphasize the love and compassion that God has. Many people who are baptized are already hard headed, so how much more a Muslim...but nevertheless, God can change any persons heart. Regardless I would pray for him and let God do all of the work, all you are is the tool by which God gets to him. Oh and it would probably help to know why he left his original faith to begin with?

Joined: Mar 21, 2006 | Posts: 4