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mikokiko

posted on Jun 02, 2008 - 03:53 PM

Truth.seeker, how could they possibly say that? The matter of fact is, Muhammad never even said that our writings are corrupt at all in the Qur'an. In fact he commanded all Christians and Jews to follow what IS IN THEIR HANDS. If the Gospel, Torah, and Zabur, was corrupted by his time, what was he talking about? There are almost literally a hundred verses that say nothing but you do not follow what you have O Christians and Jews. Or the Qur'an is only a confirmation of what the Christians and Jews have.

If Muhammad failed to mention once that our books are corrupted where do they get these facts from? History does not agree with them. Of course Muhammad had his own theological views on our Lord Jesus, and salvation, which later Muslims soon notice could not in any conceivable way be reconciled with the Scriptures which we have, so what did they say? The Christians and Jews corrupted their Scriptures. But how can they ignore such immensely strong substantive evidence through those eight centuries preceding the "Prophet" (Dead Sea Scrolls)?

Joined: Feb 11, 2003 | Posts: 1001

meeno

posted on Jun 02, 2008 - 10:58 PM

From Truth.Seeker:I've thought about that argument before (the one in the other thread). They'll just say the 200 B.C. version is corrupt. They'll say the Quran wasn't referring to the Bible as it existed in the 6th century, but as was originally written. At least that is what they should say to support their point.

That's a very weak argument because if the Qu'ran was the word of God, wouldn't it warn believers that the Bible is the word of God, but that it has been corrupted? No mention of corruption is in the Qu'ran - it was a doctrine that was added later to reconcile the contradictions between the two texts.

Further, when one refers to something - whatever it may be - one refers to it as we know it today. For instance, if I say I'm going to give you my car, you would probably think that I'm referring to a fairly recent model car - probably not older than 10-20 years at the most. You wouldn't imagine that it's a 1908 Model T that is completely useless, because otherwise, I would have probably at least mentioned the fact that it's a really old car and that you had no use for it.

Yet this is what the Qu'ran does. It offers to the reader the Bible as the word of God without ever mentioning that it is of no use to the Muslim believer. Never once does it say, "oh by the way, I'm referring to the Bible that is now extinct...you know, the one that was written 900 years ago." Thus, by simple logic, the Qu'ran must have been referring to the Bible as we know it today.

Any other logic will edge on a conspiracy theory-type reasoning.

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Mina

Joined: Mar 26, 2005 | Posts: 40
Location: Princeton, NJ

Truth.Seeker

posted on Jun 03, 2008 - 12:14 AM

Nobody said what they say is logical, it's just what they're going to say. It's logical enough in their mind. This is largely why it's futile.

Joined: Feb 25, 2008 | Posts: 411

abahoor

posted on Jun 04, 2008 - 10:24 AM

i dono if it was mentioned before, but how about this video:
Islam: What the West Needs to Know - QM

Joined: Feb 15, 2004 | Posts: 331

David_the_King

posted on Jun 08, 2008 - 04:02 AM

Here's one thing to show them. This is a video (do not know if this is real) of Monks at I believe abu fana monastery being tortured (or gotten tortured) by Muslims.

http://www.amcoptic.com/n2008/abu-fana-monks.htm

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kirollosab

posted on Jun 10, 2008 - 05:01 AM

you guys went out of topic...

you don't need to convert the guy... just like mina soliman said... all you do is pt to the place, and God will take care of the rest...

you do not need to convince him on your own...

i don't mean to come off too strong, i'm just trying to help... if the fella' speaks arabic there are books that will help... i wouldnt recommend you doing this on ur own... get help from people in the field (if you live in CA, i would say Fr. Bishoy Kamel, from St. Marina COC would be a perfect choice because he talked to us abuot these topics, and he knows the quaran, and he knows what he's talking abuot).

if the person you're trying to convince does not speak arabic there are still many ways to convert him...
all you have to do is first of all pray for him, and talk to a father from church who knows the argument: he'll take it from there!
there's no point in proving to him that islam is bad... just prove to him that Christianity is true, and it's the way to go.

Let's say we're playing basketball, and you don't shoot with the correct form; i wouldn't come up to you (if i was wise) and attack you saying your form is wrong (because i would lose you, meaning you'll be too mad at me making myself ur teacher, and becoming cocky) rather i would come up, and after noticing many misses... i'll introduce a new form, try to convince u that it works... name off a few ppol that use it in the NBA, demonstrate it, and you might be convinced to try it... this of course would depend on the person whom i'm shoing hte form...

i don't know if you get my analogy! what i meant to say, in short, is that you obviously told him that Christinaity is the right way because you're living as a Chrsistian, and you're showing him where to seek answers, the church! now all you have to do is pray for him...

idk if i answered your question... but my main point is don't do it on your own... make sure you have back up from church...


i'll end my post by reprinting something i've heard from a trusted source. Fr. Bishoy Brownfield once told someone who told me that "in college, or elsewhere, you will be attacked; the church has the answers... don't ever let yourself be put in a spot where you have to answer right away, ask for time to think, and then come back with the answer" (rephrased)!

please keep me in your prayers!

Joined: Jan 03, 2005 | Posts: 23
Location: california