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Conte

posted on May 25, 2008 - 07:40 PM

What does it means that in the service of foot-washing on maundy Thursday we have to say 10 Kyrie eleison "bel-kabir" and 100 Kyrie eleison "bel-saghîr"?

And what is the "baramûn" of Christmas?

And what does it means to say a Psalm "damjan"? Is a tune indication?

Thanks

Joined: Jun 09, 2005 | Posts: 16

David_the_King

posted on May 25, 2008 - 08:32 PM

From Conte:What does it means that in the service of foot-washing on maundy Thursday we have to say 10 Kyrie eleison "bel-kabir" and 100 Kyrie eleison "bel-saghîr"?

And what is the "baramûn" of Christmas?

And what does it means to say a Psalm "damjan"? Is a tune indication?

Thanks

Ok first, welcome to Coptichymns.net! I believe this is the first time I have seen you.

10 kirie eleyson "bel-kebir" means that you chant 10 kirie eleyson with the long tune, the one that you chant after 'efnouti nai nan' during Vesper services. And the 100 "bel-saghir" means that you chant 100 kirie eleysons in the quick tune, like in the tune of the ending of tasbeha after the creed, when you chant 3 kirie eleyson and you say 'efnouti nai nan' or 'nahmen evol ha ou ehvon' etc.

Paramoune means preserving of the day, so we have a special service for Nativity and Epiphany known as Paramoune where we chant in the annual tune. http://copticheritage.org/PagEd+index-page_id-379.phtml

And third, the psalm in the 'damg' tune, or 'damgan (damjan if you are non-Egyptian lol hehe) means in the quick recitative tune. Many hymns have a 'damgan' tune, like 'khen oshot.' All it means is that it is the fast tune.

God bless and I hope this helped. Pray for me.

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Conte

posted on May 25, 2008 - 09:55 PM

Thanks, David.
As I am translating the euchologion, I try to understand the rubrics. So, if you can help me, I'll be grateful to you all.

A precisation: do you think that "Christmas Eve" will be a good translation of "Christma's paramouni"?

GBY

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AMoussa01

posted on May 25, 2008 - 10:06 PM

No. It is not a good translation. In my opinion, i would just keep the word "paramoune." By the way, good for you that you choose to take this task to translate. Any more questions?

GB
Tony

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abahoor

posted on May 25, 2008 - 10:52 PM

To add about the Paramoune:
It is the day before the feast. The liturgy is done, as was said, in annual tune. Also it is the Resurrection have a Paramoune, but we don't call it that, we call it the liturgy of Bright Saturday.

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David_the_King

posted on May 26, 2008 - 02:12 AM

No, technically Bright Saturday is not the paramoune. Bright Saturday is the transitional day from paschal to annual, then to festal with the Feast of Resurrection. There is no paramoune because there cannot be two liturgies in one day and Bright Saturday is on Saturday (obviously lol). But it does not follow the criteria for paramoune.

Pray for me

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Conte

posted on May 26, 2008 - 07:31 AM

Thanks.
I'll be soon back....

Joined: Jun 09, 2005 | Posts: 16

abahoor

posted on May 26, 2008 - 02:43 PM

From David_the_King:No, technically Bright Saturday is not the paramoune. Bright Saturday is the transitional day from paschal to annual, then to festal with the Feast of Resurrection. There is no paramoune because there cannot be two liturgies in one day and Bright Saturday is on Saturday (obviously lol). But it does not follow the criteria for paramoune.

Pray for me

you are right. that is why it is written in books that the liturgy have to be finished before vespers saturday. why, cuz that's when the next day starts and there the resurrection liturgy is prayed.
also i didn't fully say they're the same, but close enough ya3ny.

Joined: Feb 15, 2004 | Posts: 331