lowlyman
posted on Jul 22, 2008 - 05:22 PM
dear Iqbal,
if I may, i like to interject few words in this discussion. First, I'd like to commend you for wanting to preserve the OO tradition. I also understand your concerns with teaching the tradition to the younger generations. This is all good and well. I also appreciate how you depicted the eastern Orthodox tradition in your comments below.
however, I don't think you're giving full value to the benefits of such exchanges. For instance, I became aware of St. Severus of Antioch only through the Orthodox unity web site. Without the efforts to achieve unity, the typical eastern orthodox will keep thinking of St. Severus as heretic. That is clearly a tragedy to both the EO person and to the OO traddition. furthermore, if efforts toward the unity were to continue, then those who are familiar with St. John Damascus would also be familiar with St. Severus. That is unity tend and should preserve each tradition. it also gives both camps the opportunity to address the wrongs that they've done to each other. And it's about time.those who have been unjustly treated by both camps throughout the years receive their due glory for the lives they lived.
From Iqbal:Dear Abouna,
The motivation of Fr. Dragas’ negative comments are really none of my concern and don’t really bear much relevance to the essential point I am making viz. that he should not be giving talks in Coptic Churches on issues relevant to St Cyril or Christology in general if it so happens that he holds (for whatever reason(s)) to ideas adverse to the integrity of our Church.
-- Chalcedon was, if not outrightly, Nestorian, at least accepted by Nestorians.
-- Chalcedonians came back to St. Cyril in Constantinople II.
-- Therefore, the Chalcedonians of today are not the same as Chalcedonians of the 5th Century.
-- Chalecedon must be rejected as an Ecumenical Council while Constantinople II can be accepted.
Thus, we save face...
I would hope, Abouna, that these articles of faith are accepted by our clergy and laity alike on the basis of conviction and commitment to the OO faith and tradition, and not for the sake of ‘saving face.’
and in the meantime, we make no progress towards unity.
Preserving the Tradition of the Church takes priority to re-union with any other Church. If the road to unity involves our OO faithful slowly and subtly, but surely, losing their God-crafted identity and falling out of touch with the great OO Fathers and Tradition, and conversely absorbing and in turn communicating to others a foreign identity through movements like a) sending our faithful to EO seminaries, and b) having our faithful taught by EO clergy, then may that unity be far from us. I have already seen the consequences of this: I have witnessed enough OO's converting to the EO Church, and OO's who could quote you John the Damascene off the top of their head, yet when you ask them to quote something from that glorious Saint of ours, the one who John the Damascene ignorantly derided, the great Saint Severus, they look at you with a blank face and ask, "Saint who"? Is this your vision for the future of the Church Abouna?
I have no problem with the EO tradition per se, and do in a sense support the Joint Agreements and the sentiment that we have a very similar worldview and approach to things theological and spiritual. But in the end, I will remain faithful to my OO tradition; to my Fathers, to my Faith. I can pick up a text by a great EO theologian or even a Byzantine Father and see a lot of spiritual wisdom and depth in it (at the same time I have, thankfully, not been sucked into the dangerously misleading “we’re one and the same Church and faith” mentality so as to lose all ability and inclination to approach these texts critically either) but when I am asked to present a paper at a symposium, or even when I am asked to give a presentation for the youth at one of their weekly meetings, I will refer strictly to the great Fathers, Saints, and traditions of the OO Church, for they remain the conclusively trustworthy and reliable sources of authority and it is to these authorities that I hope to encourage our faithful to look up to, for they are not only our most reliable and trustworthy authorities, but they are our Fathers and Mothers, whose living spirit and memory we have a duty to preserve and promote. They remain the greatest sources of inspiration, wisdom and truth, and they are lacking in absolutely nothing that I should seek and appeal to anything apart from them.
I have more to say but I shall save my further comments for PM.
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 | Posts: 240
