coptichymns.net - Sharing the Joy of Coptic Hymns Around the World

Truth.Seeker

posted on Oct 07, 2008 - 08:19 PM

So, you are getting a reward for something that is not virtuous, interesting.

Joined: Feb 25, 2008 | Posts: 432

Truth.Seeker

posted on Oct 07, 2008 - 08:25 PM

Again, to ward off tangents, not just a reward (i.e. getting into Heaven), but a SPECIAL reward. The former is arrived at by being "good." The latter is arrived at by being "better." For it doesn't make sense to get a higher reward for something that is not somehow better than something else.

Joined: Feb 25, 2008 | Posts: 432

mikokiko

posted on Oct 08, 2008 - 12:46 AM

Again Truth.Seeker, you are misunderstanding me. I never said that martyrdom was worthless and had noting to do with virtuous. Martyrdom is virtuous, its just not virtuous in and of itself but for another reason. Martyrdom is virtuous because of self-sacrifice. Giving money in a charity is virtuous because I want to give to the poor (and not because I want to get rid of extra change). The physical act themselves (like of not using your sexual organs), isn't what is being honoured. All these physical acts are done for reasons (all spiritual reasons, not physical, since they are of the mind, not the body).

Martyrdom is virtuous in the fact that it is about self-sacrifice and nothing else. That means a person does not HAVE to be martyred in order to have the virtue of self-sacrifice, which is inherently good. St. Mary was not martyred, but that does not mean she was not perfect. I am sure she had the virtue of self-sacrifice.

I hope I have made myself a little more clearer now.

God Bless

Joined: Feb 11, 2003 | Posts: 1019

Truth.Seeker

posted on Oct 08, 2008 - 01:12 AM

"Again Truth.Seeker, you are misunderstanding me. I never said that martyrdom was worthless and had noting to do with virtuous."

How do you expect me to answer when you tell me that I have some how said that your position is that martyrdom was "worthless?"

You ignore my argument about the Crowns, and you repeat your free-styling about self-sacrifice.

My last post. Third parties have enough of our commentary.

Joined: Feb 25, 2008 | Posts: 432

mikokiko

posted on Oct 08, 2008 - 01:41 AM

I just gave you reasons why martyrdom is honoured? What more do you want?

Joined: Feb 11, 2003 | Posts: 1019

AMoussa01

posted on Oct 08, 2008 - 03:49 AM

Truth.Seeker,

I am just curious as to who told you that the church does not believe in a crown for marriage. Can you give me a source or was it based on your own speculation?

GB
Tony

_________________
Tony Moza,
HCOC Distant Member


+ To Protect and Preserve +

HCOC: Sing it! Live it! Love it!

Joined: Jan 08, 2007 | Posts: 533
Location: St. George and St. Joseph in San Jose California

mikokiko

posted on Oct 08, 2008 - 04:38 AM

Based on my own intuition I don't think there is one for Matrimony, and I think rightly so. If I were an authority I would consider only Celibacy worthy of a crown, because of its countless spiritual advantages, that are not present in Matrimony.

God Bless

Joined: Feb 11, 2003 | Posts: 1019

AMoussa01

posted on Oct 08, 2008 - 05:24 AM

From mikokiko:Based on my own intuition I don't think there is one for Matrimony, and I think rightly so. If I were an authority I would consider only Celibacy worthy of a crown, because of its countless spiritual advantages, that are not present in Matrimony.

God Bless

I am confused. Wasn't it God's intention for a man and woman to be together? Wasn't that the reason why women were created? For man and woman to be one? I dont see consistency here...

Tony

_________________
Tony Moza,
HCOC Distant Member


+ To Protect and Preserve +

HCOC: Sing it! Live it! Love it!

Joined: Jan 08, 2007 | Posts: 533
Location: St. George and St. Joseph in San Jose California

mikokiko

posted on Oct 08, 2008 - 05:54 AM

The point of both Celibacy and Matrimony is to lead the participant into union with God, like any other Sacrament or Mystery. God intended man and woman, opposite sexes to be united in a complementary relationship of sacrifice and submission, where the two are united in a holy physical way as one flesh, sealed by God Himself.

However, there are dangers to Matrimony. One, is that the physical relationship might hinder one from defeating his/her passions and addictions, and might prevent one from purity. It might cause a flame that ignites sexual immorality. In Celibacy, one is safer from these disadvantages, as the Celibate chooses to give up the use of his organs, in order to more faithfully pursue purity, modesty, self-control, and the escape from over-indulgence of the flesh. So being a Celibate, you have many more spiritual advantages. ADVANTAGES, but you are not necessarily any better than he who is married. You are far more likely to stay away from sin as a Celibate than one who is married. Both can arrive at the same virtues.

God intended both for humans. In heaven, we will "not be given in to marriage" as asexual Celibate angels in heaven, as Christ Himself said. But on earth, He also gave us the option of participating in a a holy gateway to Him, called Marriage.

God Bless

Joined: Feb 11, 2003 | Posts: 1019

Truth.Seeker

posted on Oct 08, 2008 - 12:22 PM

Tony, you should've asked me that question a long time ago, not after I decided not too post. Anyway, go ask your priest, this is GENERAL knowledge. It's like asking me what source I have for thinking the Coptic Church is against abortion.

Joined: Feb 25, 2008 | Posts: 432