Navigation
RSS Syndication
Coptic Forums
The official forums of the Coptic Media Network, focusing on Coptic hymns, Orthodoxy, spirituality, friendship, and member experiences.
stigmata
bougho
posted on Nov 05, 2010 - 09:46 PM
From guest:Does anyone know our stance on stigmata in the Coptic church?
Stigmata is a phenomenon foreign to the Orthodox experience and, as such, the Church has no official position towards it. Such things may be signs from God, or they could be deceptions or distractions from the devil. The best thing is to remain focused on Christ and not give much heed to these phenomena. In the end what matters above everything is God and God alone. Therefore we should not allow any distracters to shift our focus.
I read that scientists are inclined to believe that the stigmata are connected with nervous or cataleptic hysteria.
HG Bishop Youssef's Answer...
SherryMikhail
posted on Nov 06, 2010 - 06:28 AM
What is Stigmata? I cannot connect any of the dots together. I am now more curious to know because what I read in this thread makes no sense to me whatsoever and I looked it up in the dictionary and this is what I got lol:
stigma |ˈstigmə|
noun ( pl. stigmas or esp. in sense 2 stigmata |stigˈmätə; ˈstigmətə|)
1 a mark of disgrace associated with a particular circumstance, quality, or person : the stigma of mental disorder | to be a nonreader carries a social stigma.
2 ( stigmata) (in Christian tradition) marks corresponding to those left on Jesus’ body by the Crucifixion, said to have been impressed by divine favor on the bodies of St. Francis of Assisi and others.
3 Medicine a visible sign or characteristic of a disease.
• a mark or spot on the skin.
4 Botany (in a flower) the part of a pistil that receives the pollen during pollination.
ORIGIN late 16th cent. (denoting a mark made by pricking or branding): via Latin from Greek stigma ‘a mark made by a pointed instrument, a dot’ ; related to stick 1 .
Cheers,
Sherry
_________________
Saint Mark Coptic Orthodox Cathedral Sydney, Australia
"Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth" - Ec 12:1
SherryMikhail
posted on Nov 06, 2010 - 06:43 AM
I also don't wanna look it up in google.. I'd rather a church view of the issue before I even think about looking at the worlds view.. So, someone reply 
_________________
Saint Mark Coptic Orthodox Cathedral Sydney, Australia
"Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth" - Ec 12:1
ophadeece
posted on Nov 06, 2010 - 10:49 AM
Dear Sherry,
I guess stigmata as they used it refers to "signs" meaning that some Christians believe signs happen to them for a season and there's a Divine purpose. That is especially true I would say in poorer less sophisticated societies where faith is intermingled with other rather unfounded ideologies (or just a misinterpretation of lives of saints).
Truth.Seeker
posted on Nov 07, 2010 - 07:49 PM
"Stigmata" is a Catholic thing where certain people considered by Catholics to be saints receive the wounds of Christ (usually bleeding palms). The Easter and Oriental Orthodox Saints have never had such things, and therefore, we are inclined to believe there is nothing miraculous about them.
In his book, "The Real Holy Grail," H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy says that the Orthodox Church does not view them to be miraculous.
Ophadeece - your explanation is inaccurate at best.
CopticSoldier
posted on Nov 08, 2010 - 07:59 AM
From Truth.Seeker:"Stigmata" is a Catholic thing where certain people considered by Catholics to be saints receive the wounds of Christ (usually bleeding palms). The Easter and Oriental Orthodox Saints have never had such things, and therefore, we are inclined to believe there is nothing miraculous about them.
In his book, "The Real Holy Grail," H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy says that the Orthodox Church does not view them to be miraculous.
Ophadeece - your explanation is inaccurate at best.
That is quite interesting because some very highly revered saints like St Francis of Assisi have had them - who is very highly regarded by His Holiness.
God bless,
CS
_________________
Email me: droo@coptichymns.net
tonyhabibi
posted on Nov 08, 2010 - 06:09 PM
I come from lebanon , and there are so many cases of stigmata presently , that whenever i go visit , there is a new person who has it , and people flock to the persons house to recieve their blessing .....all this makes me NOT believe in stigmata , and alll this makes me now view many things with a critical eye such as oil leaking from pictures ..
tonyhabibi
posted on Nov 08, 2010 - 06:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEqFQCV1j8c
that link has a girl who after she took communion has oil on hands ,.... im critical . to this also
Truth.Seeker
posted on Nov 08, 2010 - 09:45 PM
CS,
It is claimed that Francis of Assisi had them. I've never heard Pope Shenouda III talk about him - when you say he highly regards him, what are you referring to? Pope Shenouda III would obviously not consider him to be a saint. I am speculating that, if anything, Pope Shenouda III would admire the monastic organizational feats he accomplished; that is a far cry from stigmata.
tonyhabibi
posted on Nov 09, 2010 - 04:46 AM
off topic .. but what would be the percise reason why pope shenounda wouldent consider St. Francis a saint ..... just curious .
btw , i almost had a chance to visit his monastary in italy last spring .... but missed the chance , it is said that there is a awesome , or strange ( in a good way ) feeling u get when u go there.
Truth.Seeker
posted on Nov 09, 2010 - 03:38 PM
Because he is Catholic. A saint, among other things, is someone we should aspire to be like. As Orthodox, we believe there are certain things that are wrong with Catholicism; therefore, the most important fact about Francis of Assisi (that he is Catholic) is problematic.
As a side note, since Francis of Assisi was around in the 12th-13th century, he lived and died at a time when the differences between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches were not as numerous as now. If I'm not mistaken, the quarrel at that time would have been about Chalcedon and the Filioque (right now, we would add the possibility of salvation of non-Christians, Papal Infallibility and Immaculate Conception, at least these are the ones that come to mind; secondarily, there are certain change in rites that we do not appreciate - like only requiring one hour of fasting before communion (a change brought about by Vatican II)). Not the place to get into it, we can start a thread about the differences (although I'd guess that already exists) if you want.
Truth.Seeker
posted on Nov 09, 2010 - 03:50 PM
First and foremost, a Saint is someone recognized by the Church as such; there is no debate to be had on the subject.
Someone who supports the filioque is someone who disagrees with the Ecumenical Councils of Constantinople and Ephesus, which said the Nicea-Constantinople Creed professes the Christian faith and there shall be no changes to it. Someone who disagrees with an Ecumenical Council, which is spoken in by the Holy Spirit Himself, cannot be a Saint.
By way of background, "filioque" means "and the Son" in Latin, and it is added to the part of the Creed talking about the procession of the Holy Spirit. We would say, "...the Holy Spirit, Who proceeds from the Father", at Western-rite Catholic Churches, you would hear "...the Holy Spirit, Who proceeds from the Father and the Son".
SherryMikhail
posted on Nov 10, 2010 - 07:16 AM
From mikokiko:So the Church only recognizes its own members as Saints, never of other communions?
GB
Well I think it's clear to say that the Orthodox church doesn't recognise Catholic saints - have a look at our synaxarium and such.. There is no evidence that the Orthodox church has!
_________________
Saint Mark Coptic Orthodox Cathedral Sydney, Australia
"Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth" - Ec 12:1
Truth.Seeker
posted on Nov 10, 2010 - 03:27 PM
From Truth.Seeker:
First and foremost, a Saint is someone recognized by the Church as such; there is no debate to be had on the subject.
From mikokiko:
So the Church only recognizes its own members as Saints, never of other communions?
So that we don't start getting into defining "other communions" and dates of this and that communion, I'll just point one thing out. I did not say what your question implies I said. I said a Saint is someone recognized by the Church as such; whether such a person is from this or that communion is not the point, the point is whether or not the Coptic Orthodox Church recognizes that person is a Saint.
With respect to the Eastern Orthodox Communion, things are a little interesting in light of the 1990 Agreement. With respect to the Roman Catholic Communion, Sherry is absolutely right.
mikokiko
posted on Nov 10, 2010 - 05:29 PM
Sherry, the Synexarium is by no means an exhaustive list (as if there exists one) of all the saints our Church recognizes. Most of them are quite local saints that the Copts came into contact with. That's not to say that the Church does not recognize any saints that the Catholic Church does (of course I mean after the Council of Chalcedon).
GB
Return to the Forum Index
Powered by the coptichymns.net Network of Coptic Hymns and Coptic Orthodox Sites.
Forum Statistics
| Total | Daily | ||
| Topics: | 7784 | 2.23 | |
| Users: | 6196 | 1.78 | |
| Posts: | 64696 | 18.55 | |
Online Members
| mourad |
241 unlogged users and 1 registered user online now.
Already a member? Log in above.
Not a member? Register your unique identity to participate more fully in our site!